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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#481

Post by kyawzazaw »

scrose wrote: post #196

If you’re a new engineer reading this article: Startups are talked about as if work-life balance doesn’t or shouldn’t exist. It only doesn’t exist if you (1) choose for that to be the case or (2) Have a manager like this who holds things like firing you if ‘someone better comes along’ over your head. There are plenty of startups where you can put in your ~8 hours and call it a day 99% of the time and the business wil…

How do you check for and avoid (2) in new grad interview stages? Especially when you are not assigned to a team when applying

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#482

Post by sangnoir »

gonehome wrote: post #426
lhorie wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall watching a news report as a teen about how things used to be pretty chill at Microsoft at its heyday. These days it doesn't seem to have a monopoly on much of anything, but it can still crank out interesting projects. It doesn't have to be a black-and-white do-or-die.

Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way. Nadella’s turn around is almost miraculous and is itself probably an interesting story. I wouldn’t bet on that as the norm. I’d expect the norm to be more like IBM, RIM, or Nokia. I agree with most of the article, but one line stuck out to me as particularly wrong: >”After the acquisition, we have an extremely long project that consum…

> Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way

I'm not Ballmer's biggest fan, but I think he's often sold short (to Nadella's benefit), you'd almost believe Microsoft was tanking, but it grew a lot under Ballmer (mobile failures notwithstanding).

As far as I can tell, Nadella just reprioritized projects that Ballmer launched or shepherded in his boring-but-efficient way: what new tech or project did Satya launch that you can attribute MS's "turnaround" to? IMHO, it's mostly PR/hearts-and-minds stuff, but I quit MS tech a long time ago and haven't been following closely.

In retrospect, I think the Win mobile failures were overblown, the zeitgeist then was mobile would replace desktop/laptop computers, therefore failing on mobile could be fatal to Microsoft, and remained as a stain on Ballmers name. The "post-pc" world suggested by Apple/Jobs never materialized.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#483

Post by Nimitz14 »

notaslave wrote: post #346
sergiosgc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you the perspective from the other side of the trench: I never ask my employees for overtime, never control their work hours. The typical work week that organically arises out of this is about 35 hours. I would absolutely fire anyone who would close the laptop for the weekend and left a critical operation pending on Friday. It's about work ethics and personal responsibility of the outcome of personal work…

If the company is paying me for 40 hours, why would they expect me to work more? If the 'outcome of my work' is my personal responsibility, I should also be paid based on the outcome-I should also get a cut from whatever profit the company makes with my work. If the company thinks they have the right to my personal life because they pay me for 40 hours, then its slavery. Also, threatening me with firing because I ref…

They're paying you to do a job. They're not just paying you to "put in the hours".

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#484

Post by ZephyrBlu »

Shaddox wrote: post #107

I'm aware that, as a founder, he's obviously very interested in the success of his product. His mentality however carried over the acquisition and past inertia. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I think his problem is that he's passionate. And I don't mean the corporate lingo 'passionate', I mean the actual passionate. I strongly advise any passionate people to not seek to turn their passion into a job. Because it…

Well this is depressing to read, especially this bit: "The sweet spot is somewhere between "I don't hate it" and "I kind of like it". You can learn to like something if you do it long enough."

It seems like a great way to waste 40 hours of your life every week.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#485

Post by hundchenkatze »

ghaff wrote: post #459
gonehome wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way. Nadella’s turn around is almost miraculous and is itself probably an interesting story. I wouldn’t bet on that as the norm. I’d expect the norm to be more like IBM, RIM, or Nokia. I agree with most of the article, but one line stuck out to me as particularly wrong: >”After the acquisition, we have an extremely long project that consum…

I somewhat sympathize with those living in a small apartment who used to walk, take a shuttle bus, take the subway, etc. to work where they were fed 5 days a week or more--and now they're stuck in their small apartments with most restaurants closed and facing the prospect of maybe having to move to a bigger place. So one can choose to interpret complaints about meal expensing in that vein. That said, in general, at l…

That's still a ton of entitlement...

"Oh no! I make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and I have to live in my tiny apartment, buy food, and I might have to get a bigger apartment."

vs

"Oh no! I don't have a job, and I'm about to lose my apartment because I can't pay rent."

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#486

Post by UncleMeat »

tinyhouse wrote: post #215

I work in big tech. Not Google. This is one of the best blog posts I have read about big tech. I agree with most things. The most important one is the wrong optimization for promotion. People would happily push something complicated and unnecessary to production just because it can help them to get promoted later on (by showing fake impact). The other thing I strongly agree with is working on things that don't add va…

> The most important one is the wrong optimization for promotion.

As a CEO, it is literally his job to ensure that promotions are aligned with company goals. At Google, VPs have final say on every single promotion. If there were people who were getting promoted under his command for stupid reasons, he was literally the person who could stop it.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#487

Post by asidiali »

yardie wrote: post #476
asidiali wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying part of my reply to another comment: If my manager hits me up at 11pm asking for something, sure I can ignore him or her. Then I come in the next day, they already did the thing they asked for themselves because [insert business reason], and says “never mind”. Next time it happens, they go to the other dev who is happy to do it at 11pm. Guess who gets the promotion? Even if it’s unfair and shouldn’t happen th…

> my manager hits me up at 11pm asking for something One thing I learned about management is they are getting more than salary, usually there is a bonus or RSUs attached to everything they do. But they aren't working at 11pm for the good of the company if the good of the company isn't directly benefiting them. Keep that in mind the next time you respond to that midnight email. > they go to the other dev who is happy…

Sadly I totally agree with you, it is true.

There is a social element to that equation though, which is why management in this particular type of situation has the tendency to so often turn into a "cool club" of people who do everything together, hack on the weekends together, drink after work together, etc, and thus the work/life balance only gets worse as the cycle repeats and new managers are initiat...I mean, hired. Because it's in their personal best interest to keep up this culture.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#488

Post by ZephyrBlu »

Aeolun wrote: post #478
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article he says this doesn't work because people effectively view equity as salary.

And rightly so. Your google equity is absolutely disconnected from whatever product you are building there. External forces are more likely to affect it than anything you do personally.

Yes, exactly. But this is the complete opposite of what people are saying in this thread.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#489

Post by hackily »

ghaff wrote: post #459
gonehome wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way. Nadella’s turn around is almost miraculous and is itself probably an interesting story. I wouldn’t bet on that as the norm. I’d expect the norm to be more like IBM, RIM, or Nokia. I agree with most of the article, but one line stuck out to me as particularly wrong: >”After the acquisition, we have an extremely long project that consum…

I somewhat sympathize with those living in a small apartment who used to walk, take a shuttle bus, take the subway, etc. to work where they were fed 5 days a week or more--and now they're stuck in their small apartments with most restaurants closed and facing the prospect of maybe having to move to a bigger place. So one can choose to interpret complaints about meal expensing in that vein. That said, in general, at l…

My apartment in SF does not have a kitchen. Food provided by the company helped me get by! With no car, and only a handful of restaurant options within 1 mile, it's not the easiest to get by without a company cafeteria. I can sympathize with why many people would like to be able to expense food.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#490

Post by Aeolun »

dd36 wrote: post #162
iandanforth wrote: post #108

I think his derision of entitled ladder-climbing employees is valid from the perspective of someone who sees "building something valuable" as the point of employment. There is a whole community however that sees wealth acquisition as the point of employment. Even if it's "merely" joining the ranks of the top 5% this is lauded as success by many. Lawyers, doctors, consultants, stock traders, all the high paying profes…

Same. I can live in a hut in Guatemala if I feel challenged and am enjoying my work. Wealth is fun but so long as my family and I are good, it’s not a motivating factor. Solving problems is.

Working in a corporation where I’m already adequately challenged by the work, is there any other goal to strive for except promotion and compensation increase?

Once you are at the level where your compensation covers everything you want, it’s more of a game to increase it than necessity.

It also makes me feel better since a lot of people I don’t respect earn a lot more than I do, so increasing relative compensation is righting something in the world :P

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