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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#481

Post by imtringued »

ardy42 wrote: post #411
halukakin wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. If that country has foreign deficit, if that country has high government debt. What happens? How can the government keep paying its own employees? How does it pay retiree checks? How does it subsidize farming when needed? As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... Strong currencies are not the solution to…

> Strong currencies are not the solution to poor governance. Good governance and democracy makes a country and its currency strong. Not vice versa. That's a good point. Too many people propose individualist solutions to social problems, and all their "solution" would do is make the social problem worse. I think that stems often stems from an overzealous faith in free markets, which leads to a distorted idea that indi…

Markets only exist within the context of a political system. They are just a tool to reach a certain policy outcome. The idea of using the free market to replace poor governance is laughable. It's the opposite. You have to set the right policies and incentives and only then will the free market show its true beauty. Markets fail or succeed because of improper or proper governance.

It's like a genetic/ML algorithm that is optimizing for a cost function. If your cost function is awful your algorithm will be awful but that's not an argument in favor of getting rid of cost functions entirely.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#482

Post by spmurrayzzz »

vineyardmike wrote: post #344
spmurrayzzz wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is problematic for layer 1 settlement for sure. But there are layer 2 solutions that can help with the slippage issue (lightning network being the most prevalent). With a sufficient density of multisig wallet availability, as a proxy for liquidity, transactions are near-instant. That said, there are differences in settlement guarantees at layer 2 that might make certain use cases less optimal.

> for layer 1 settlement for sure. But there are layer 2 layers?

Yea this terminology is borrowed from the OSI model for networking, with which you're likely familiar. It originally was used as just an analogy, but has increasingly just become the way the space describes (and markets) the different protocol layers of cryptocurrencies generally.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#483

Post by PragmaticPulp »

pragmaticCrypto wrote: post #448

People often think crypto == bitcoin. I think there are 4 categories that people should think about: 1. Crypto as asset class (BTC/ ETH) 2. Crypto for transactions - usually pegged to a dollar or other fiat eg. USDC 3. Crypto as a utility/ asset backed token - filecoin etc 4. fraud. I think mastercard visa etc will focus on #2 above and it will bring extremely powerful dynamic to these ecosystems

#2 (crypto transactions backed by traditional currency) is far and away the most useful of these categories.

Unfortunately, it doesn't offer the speculative upside of something like Bitcoin. People don't actually care if their transactions are carried across a blockchain or a database, as long as it gets done.

Bitcoin is hot specifically because it's so detached from any real-world use cases or metrics that might put bounds on its price. There's a narrative that because no one can determine an upper limit for Bitcoin price, there's infinite upside. Of course that narrative is no different than any other arbitrary asset, but the Bitcoin narrative is strong because it's been in the news so much.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#484

Post by orbots »

Anyone know what the "select" cryptocurrencies are?

The focus on Bitcoin's lack of intrinsic value and energy use is really getting boring.

I read Hacker News comments for more information on a story.

How about some of that for a switch? Go bitch about intrinsic value and ecological disaster on one of the other bitcoin threads please.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#485

Post by jkepler »

Jtsummers wrote: post #327
dna_polymerase wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people don't expect the dollar to become more valuable anytime soon, so spending it doesn't effect seller's remorse a day later, which happens to everyone spending ETH or BTC these days.

And, since USD is inflationary, we expect it to become less valuable (real value) over time which encourages investment and spending today. Since we don't have crazy levels of inflation this doesn't fully discourage savings (with a 10% or higher inflation rate you have very little incentive to save, with 1 or 2% your savings lose value over time, but slow enough that it's still worth saving). Economies are improved a…

2% inflation over 30 years destroys over half the purchasing power of the saved money. So no, moderate inflation doesn't encourage saving. It encourages the unbridled consumerism that has created environmental catastrophe.

Bitcoin, as a deflationary asset, encourages lower time preference, which encourages saving and real investing (generating real world value rather than paper gains), resulting in less consumerism and better stewarding of resources.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#486

Post by janaagaard »

suikadayo wrote: post #121

Everyone on this thread seems to be missing the point that they’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin.

> hey’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin.

Interesting, but where do you get that from?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#487

Post by dillondoyle »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #6
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I’m in the minority in that I’d like to be able to spend my cryptocurrency in a way that: 1. The card handles also selling some off for taxes every transaction and put that in an interest-accruing account. 2. The card tracked my capital gains for each transaction for easy reporting on taxes. 3. The card provider will help manage fees - I’d rather bulk deposit funds to a layer2 and have fee-less payments over having t…

Yikes. I was going to reply this is my biggest question/concern.

Cap Gains on btc profit is crazy insane. I guess it's offset if value increases 100% since you bought - but that's still a big tax tax on anything you buy.

Maybe you can get lucky and set some type of tax advantage first in first out during down swings to take a loss?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#488

Post by bmurphy1976 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #435
bmurphy1976 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Four or five years ago I mined Dogecoin on a lark using a laptop for a month. I converted that to BTC at some point and it's worth more than I ever anticipated. It won't change my life but I could have some fun with the money. I'm not inclined to transfer it to USD, but I'd happily spend some of it were it easy to do so. Maybe buy some stocks, upgrade my PC, or get a PS5 and some games? Sure, why not! I'm only sittin…

> I'm not inclined to transfer it to USD, but I'd happily spend some of it were it easy to do so. Spending it is effectively the same thing as converting it to USD. Why are you hesitant to convert it to USD to buy something, yet you'd be happy to have a 3rd party service handle the BTC-USD conversion in the background and collect their profit on the exchange? There's no free lunch. Mastercard isn't doing this out of…

There's a big difference. Having to find an exchange and hook everything up to my bank account is a hassle (especially when I have no need to do it). Sending BTC to somebody using an Android app isn't and is something I have done frequently (e.g. donating BTC to parties who have helped me or offer something I enjoy).

I don't want a world where I have to transfer the BTC to USD to use it, I want a world where I can just use it. MasterCard acting an an intermediary is fine with me, somebody has to bootstrap this.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#489

Post by lxgr »

deevolution wrote: post #477
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

How can you possibly back up the claim that the USD is stable? My grandparents were able to buy several acres of land and build a house for 80k in the 1970s. Doing the same today costs 500k+!!! It's completely outrageous. Ths USD is far from stable and anyone who thinks so is either insanely privileged or ignorant!

Predictable inflation is a form of stability.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#490

Post by PragmaticPulp »

seibelj wrote: post #330
Sargos wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.

HN should have been on the cutting edge of crypto, given its “hacker” supposed ethos, but a large group of no-coiners couldn’t understand it and have posted the same tired arguments ad nauseum for years. There are a lot of people on HN who love and support crypto but the arguments are exhausting and you get nothing but downvotes. All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I chan…

Bitcoin was all over the news a decade ago.

The reason it's not popular is that the early narrative wasn't "too the moon!" The narrative was that Bitcoin was the currency of the future and that we'd all be using Bitcoin for transactions.

Anyone who actually used Bitcoin at the time could see how there was no chance of it taking off as a payment mechanism. That's still true today, especially with $8+ transaction fees.

The difference is that everyone dropped the pretense of actually using bitcoin and instead went all-in on the speculation narrative. People buy it because the price goes up, and the price goes up because people buy it.

Works great until a down cycle, when everyone rushes for the exits and tells themselves they'll buy back in at a lower price.

> All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives.

Changed their lives how? By revolutionizing the way they pay for things with cryptocurrency? Or by getting in on an investment that went up?

Be warned that the exact opposite happens when Bitcoin goes back down. Look back at Reddit posts during previous crashes for a reminder: Suicide hotline warnings, stories about people losing half of their retirement, and so on.

If the only redeeming quality of Bitcoin is that the price goes up as more people get in on it, it's hardly different than an MLM or pyramid scheme that relies on a constant influx of new money to keep the show going.

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