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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#481

Post by systemvoltage »

npunt wrote: post #454
trustfundbaby wrote: post #279

I was on the fence about this, but reading the comments convinced me it was the absolute right decision. The fact that all these institutions just allowed this horrible hateful speech for four years, in the name of free speech etc, despite all the harassment, harm (mental and otherwise) it caused to so many people in America actually emboldened so many to the extent that now that they crossed this invisible line, the…

Your point about the 'invisible line' is astute. We're in a crisis of perception and reality right now, and this has caused many to lose sight of the very real lines that we have agreed upon to preserve society and democracy. I think the other important factor here is we are in a very vulnerable moment right now because we are in the midst of a transition of power. It takes time to transfer the apparatus and operatio…

I am also worried. It feels like Big Tech flourished in last 4 years with advertisement revenue while staying hush about these issues, but all of a sudden they have an epiphany now.

Big Tech leaders are selfish, cowards, clueless and just as vulnerable as the government leaders. They were interested in milking billions in Ads from these hate speech, particularly Twitter.

If I were employees at these big companies, I would raise internal questions - why wasn't this done earlier? What changed? The US Capitol riots is the specific moment that made them all wake up?

These are rhetorical questions. All big tech leaders appeared in front of Congress in last 4 years, and weasled and squeeked instead of prowl and roar. Spineless and immoral, speaking double speak to appease the board of directors and the shareholders. At some point, the world would be destroyed but we've created a lot of value for our shareholders. Reminds me of this [1]. Pardon my cynicism, open for your comments.

[1] https://twitter.com/Benioff/status/549339156854214656/photo/...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#482

Post by gkanai »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> AWS and Visa feel like the former, though they are legally the latter.

Back in the day, you had to rack your own servers in your own data centers and manage them yourself. Had any of these 'free speech' services spent any time considering how reliant they were on 3rd party services, they should never have engaged those companies in the first place.

There was a day when you had to build your own servers to host your own websites. Not that long ago, imo.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#483

Post by na85 »

TearsInTheRain wrote: post #447
Rapzid wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the more concerning tactics I've witnessed over the past few years that Trump and other parts of the GOP rhetoric machine were using in service of lying to people.. Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. "Stop The Steal" is just another flavor of conflating 1st amendment "freedom of spe…

> Convincing people who don't understand very well their rights, democracy, civics, and etc that their RIGHTS were being infringed; by others exercising their rights. I dont think we need to infantilize Trump supporters. They are capable of evaluating claims made by the GOP.

>They are capable of evaluating claims made by the GOP.

Do you really believe that?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#484

Post by xirbeosbwo1234 »

phatfish wrote: post #391
xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people have pointed out that Trump and much of the GOP just launched a coup, so I'll leave that aside. Of course it's different from living under a fascist government. A totalitarian government would send you to a prison camp or kill you for saying the wrong thing. The Stasi would systematically and invisibly ruin all your relationships and your career. People who are banned from Twitter can go to another websi…

The American dedication to free speech only functions when people -- especially those in power -- are acting in good faith. Trump took the pseudonymous troll culture of the internet to the highest office of government, and this is the result. Trolls and Trump play by different rules, truth and facts are inconsequential -- all that matters is the reaction of their victims. I have sympathy with Trump supporters that ar…

>It's not stupid to believe the president of the United States will be honest with them

I think it's pretty stupid. The entire Iraq war was based on lies. Trump in particular is a terrible liar but has lied consistently for forty years.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#485

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

hilbertseries wrote: post #245
crx07 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand it feels completely appropriate and even deserved. On the other, yes, this is unfortunately a path to a very serious totalitarian issue. Situations like this one underscore the future importance of cryptocurrencies. Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprison…

> Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprisonment or violence against a handful of executives. How is this a good faith argument. You’ve jumped a situation where somewhere is being deplatformed and banned from various services for encouraging violence. To someone will us…

Russian opposition is tamest of the tame, yet, it is routinely deplatformed and prosecuted, guess for what, calls for extremism and violence! And a large portion of population believes that to be true, because government controls most sources of information.

I think US might look exactly same in a few years. The mighty benevolent Party will care for thankful citizens, with the exception of a few outcasts who can't even create a simple website and are laughed at all over the media and social networks. And of course the Party will win all the subsequent elections for the next 70 years.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#487

Post by adventured »

throw0101a wrote: post #465
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #95

There is a difference between bank accounts, Visa/MasterCard access and Internet service, on one hand, and App Stores, Twitter accounts and payment providers, on the other hand. The First Amendment promises both free speech and free assembly. Core to the latter is the freedom not to assemble. This freedom is regulated. You can’t refuse to do business with protected classes. But political affiliation is not a protecte…

> But political affiliation is not a protected class. Perhaps these bans are happening not because of political affiliation but due to the messages these particular people (e.g., Trump) are espousing. Parler go banned because it's full of message calling for (e.g.) Mike Pence to be hanged and other such things, and Parler isn't / can't do much about it, and its infrastructure providers (AWS, app stores) do not want a…

Twitter is flooded with calls for violence 24/7. Exclusively left wing celebrities openly call for violence all the time on there, nobody does anything about it. That has been going on for the past four years non-stop.

Actor Peter Fonda called for violently assaulting Trump's underage child on Twitter in 2018 (his account was not permanently banned), and that's very typical posting from leftist celebrities on Twitter these past four years.

Thousands of violent posts were in the "Hang Mike Pence" Twitter trend that was going on the other day. People have been openly calling for executions for treason and similar on Twitter in relation to the Capitol riots. There was widespread cheering and celebrating when that woman got shot in the neck by Capitol Police, I read thousands of Tweets that were literally cheering for her death, all on Twitter, and nobody gives a fuck.

The double standard by Twitter is beyond disgusting. It's psychopath behavior.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#488

Post by aww_dang »

eejit_compiler wrote: post #416
incrudible wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump to this day has an approval rate of around 40%. That is a pretty large “periphery”. You can not just seperate him from the Republican party. They tried and failed.

It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens to the Republican party over the next few years, given that they've ended up tying themselves so strongly to Trump's cult of personality.

It appears as if they started distancing themselves as soon as he lost. There was always a contingent of "Never Trumpers". Politicians are fickle.

It will be interesting to see what happens, more so because I expect widespread disillusionment from Trump republicans.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#490

Post by koolba »

AYBABTME wrote: post #292
camhart wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Earlier would mean Republicans have more time to enforce consequences. With looming antitrust cases with many big tech companies, this could be construed as a pledge of loyalty.

Interesting point I hadn't considered, but in the face of it, Occam's razor makes me more inclined to believe this isn't a cross-Big Tech conspiracy and more in reaction to the bad press following the Capitol events.

I’d argue it’s both. They’re acting in concert and not letting a good crisis go to waste.
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