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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

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Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#481

Post by j-pb »

valuearb wrote: post #480
j-pb wrote: post #311

My new M1 Macbook Air arrived today. The excitement was quickly replaced by sober frustration. Yes apple did a remarkable job with the M1, no they've still lost their mojo when it comes to high quality software. I've spend the last 3 hours trying the wipe and reinstall the thing, because their non-virgin-os migration assistant is simply unreliable. So far, I've had issues where the fused Data/OS drive would just spli…

I'm shocked that Apple hardware isn't 100% failure proof, like Dell, HP, Lenova, Surface, etc. I wonder which of those brands has the highest customer satisfaction?

Yeah but with those brands I could factory reset the bios and called it a day, or worst case popped the lid and pushed the nvme ssd back into place.

I don't think it's hardware but a controller firmware issue.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#482

Post by DonHopkins »

brundolf wrote: post #238

> I actually discovered that I’ve had an instinct of measuring my MacBook’s CPU usage by feeling the heat on the strip of aluminum right above the Touch Bar, and I can’t even do that anymore now. Market opportunity here for a peripheral that's just an adhesive strip you put above your touch bar, and it outputs heat corresponding to CPU usage ;)

Good lord, don't touch there! You're risking burning your fingerprints off, then you won't be able to easily unlock your computer and phone!

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#483

Post by haberman »

buran77 wrote: post #300
throwaway894345 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know very little about this space, but presumably that will change if/when a significant portion of the laptop space (and probably the server space as well) moves from x86 to ARM? It might be painful for early adopters for a few years, but I would expect this stuff to get ironed out in time, no?

No, that ship has sailed. Anything new that comes now can be built according to the expectations smartphones have set over the past decade and a half. Closed systems that are treated like disposable items. Even PCs in their mobile incarnation are now far less open and flexible than they used to be. The reason PCs are still open is historical, they started like this and people can't really see PCs any other way but th…

"Developer Mode" exists in many new devices, eg. Chromebooks, Oculus Quest, Android phones.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#484

Post by haswell »

jakeva wrote: post #343
btilly wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have demonstrated exactly why I don't care how fast the M1 runs, I'm not buying Apple hardware. Not until I start hearing that they have done something about their long quality slide. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25238688 for the last time that I expressed this opinion on HN.

Comments like these always make me wonder if I'm the only person in the world still delighted by Apple products. I mean I alone can not be responsible for their sales volume. And then I start to wonder if I should be more critical of Apple, so I fire up my Windows machine and think silently "No, this is still a worse experience". So I fire up my Ubuntu and have the same reaction. I just don't understand the vitriol s…

I'm with you.

I've had my share of Apple skepticism over the years (and even some unwarranted Apple hate earlier in my life), but these days, I use Apple products because for the most part, they just work.

There are absolutely valid criticisms of Apple and their products, but this is not limited to Apple. It does seem that critics are especially vocal, and this drowns out the happy users who don't necessarily have reasons to go around proclaiming their happiness.

Squeaky wheels and all that...

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#485

Post by jeffkeen »

sushisource wrote: post #415
jakeva wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like these always make me wonder if I'm the only person in the world still delighted by Apple products. I mean I alone can not be responsible for their sales volume. And then I start to wonder if I should be more critical of Apple, so I fire up my Windows machine and think silently "No, this is still a worse experience". So I fire up my Ubuntu and have the same reaction. I just don't understand the vitriol s…

At least for me the reaction is largely emotional. I like using my linux desktop because I can set it up exactly how I want, and macOS just doesn't roll that way. Now, I'm not really the target market, so whatever, but there are a few things that upset me about it: 1. I could really, really love macOS if they had a "don't treat me like a child" checkbox I could hit somewhere that would turn off some of the more obnox…

> I like using my linux desktop because I can set it up exactly how I want, and macOS just doesn't roll that way.

I'm not trying to have an argument here, but I've never really understood what is the "exactly how you want" that Mac OS doesn't provide? Would you mind sharing some details? Is it just a matter of not being familiar with the places to change the defaults to something more to your liking, or is it actually missing the ability to do something you need?

I've been a Mac user since the 80s, I write software for a living, and I understand that among tech folk there is a continental divide between convention and configuration, and I think that might translate to choice in OS, too. Seems to me that most Mac users are on the convention over configuration side, and most people who are anti-MacOS are the opposite; they want to configure every bit. Just wondering if that's the case here, too, or if there's more to it specifically.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#486

Post by billforsternz »

madeofpalk wrote: post #93
faitswulff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a suspicion upon reading Moorhead's review that he was trying to use familiar enterprise Windows software on the M1 instead of trying to use native apps: > So far, I have experienced application crashes in Microsoft Edge, Outlook, WinZip and Logitech Camera Control. I got installation errors with Adobe Reader XI, Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, a Samsung SSD backup application, and Xbox 360 Controller for Mac. What Ma…

Wait, WinZip is available on a Mac? I know its not the point, but... what's the point of using WinZip on a mac when the OS has built in unzipping?

Windows has built in unzipping too, but I still find WinZip really useful (for zipping, and fast unzipping the way I want).

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#487

Post by valuearb »

p1necone wrote: post #298
valuearb wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your TR is what, 280 watts TDP? nearly 20 times more than a M1. And is 30% slower in single core. Firestorm Cores use less than 4 watts each. A 16 firestorm core Mx will produce roughly the same multicore performance as your TR, with a less than 70 watt TDP. And a $65 M1 dusts a 4800h that costs over 4x as much and using 1/3 the power. Top end ThreadRippers cost $2,000 to $3,000 each. You can bet an Apple Mx ThreadRi…

"$65 m1" where are you getting this number from? You can't buy an m1 CPU from a store and slap it in a system, you have to buy it in a $1000 laptop.

It's a pretty accurate cost estimate from those tracking Ax series costs. A chip AMD sells for $300 doesn't cost AMD $300 to make, but being a public company their gross margins tell us it costs roughly $150.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#488

Post by neogodless »

shawnz wrote: post #439
neogodless wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. So you either go back to using macOS, or you complain that Windows doesn't run the software you like. It's OK to do that for any OS you run. It's a valid reason to not like an OS, or in this case, an OS that is going through a transition to a new ISA. Until it runs the software you prefer, it isn't ideal.

Sure, but it doesn't necessarily make it an objectively poorer product just because it's hard to swim against the current on that platform. Every platform necessarily has some expectation of doing things a certain way, and when things are done that way the experience will be better/easier. You seemed to be implying that this was some unique problem with OSX and that's what is holding you back from trying M1. But real…

I do not hope to imply that this is a unique problem on OSX. I just disagree a bit that you have to conform to a standardized way to use a platform. Perhaps you do, with OSX, and it is a unique problem there? Obviously due to market structure, Microsoft gears Windows to "everyone" without being the "best" for many people, although it tends to be the best for PC gaming.

What is holding me back from trying the M1, personally, is cost. I just paid $950 for a Ryzen 7 4800H with 16GB and GTX 1660 Ti. It can't hold a candle to an M1 Macbook in battery life, but I know I can run my programs and play my games and not think twice about it. My failsafe is an electrical outlet. I'm hoping I can end up trying an M1 (or successor) through an employer though! I spent the past year using a ~2014 Macbook Pro through work, and for work things, it was better than my Windows machines for working on projects where everyone else used bash on a Mac. As WSL improved, I was able to be equally productive on my Windows machines and tend to use them and not bother with the Macbook Pro.

That's all a lot of extra anecdote you didn't need, but to be sure, I'm not trying to single out OSX - the OP singled it out by saying, essentially, "you're using it wrong!"

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#489

Post by __d »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #452

Gruber notes midway: "Perversely, developers, who by nature of their profession best understand exactly what an architecture transition like this entails, might be among the few professions who can’t yet move their primary computing to an Apple Silicon device by nature of the software tools they depend upon. (Some developers can move now, and — because Xcode running on the M1 compiles code so much faster than any Int…

I'm interested to see what Apple comes out with for the higher-end MacBook Pros, iMac Pro, and Mac Pro. I expect to see the M1 used in the iMacs, although ...

That could be a single higher-end chip, with possible multi-socket support for the Mac Pro? Or it could be two chips: one for the iMac and laptops, and a beefier one for the Pro desktops?

Either way, they absolutely need to compete with Zen3 on highly parallel loads. The co-processors (GPU, NPU, etc) are an advantage for general usage, but for many devs, basic CPU core counts and high I/O speeds are the winner.

I hope they come up with something that's equivalently good as the M1 is as a low-end laptop chip.

Re: M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

#490

Post by ravi-delia »

Kopiks wrote: post #359
ravi-delia wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 as a computer is too locked down for me, and it seems like for you. But the M1 as a demonstration of the power of modern ARM chips is absolutely unmatched. I have seen a lot of people use the lockdown argument to justify a disregard of ARM overall without realizing that no, the open version of this technology will be incredible .

> the M1 as a demonstration of the power of modern ARM chips is absolutely unmatched I feel like it's more a demonstration of Apple's competency in vertical integration, cultivating talent, reducing the impact of politics on product/technical quality and ensuring productivity within and between technical teams. Aspects where Intel has abjectly failed and hasn't found any solutions for. Intel has tried repeatedly to p…

Apple is absolutely leading on this front, starting in the phone space. That being said, I don't think their lead over other distributors is especially large. Apple has taken ARM seriously, and built performance chips in their mobile devices that if not for thermal constraints would handily compete with x86 systems. That being said, the same is true of a Snapdragon. Apple ARM, and certainly M1, is better than the competition, but that's because no one else has looked for performance from ARM. The chip designers haven't really been pushed yet. Now that M1 has demonstrated what can happen when the technology is freed from the phone, we'll see people catch up.
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