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The Era of Visual Studio Code

blog.robenkleene.com

481–490 of 698 posts

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#481
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about this fact elsewhere also. Could you expand on this a bit? My impression was that VSCode and its associated extensions are open source, so I'm curious how Microsoft could make certain parts exclusive to its own build of VSCode.

Because VSCode is under a permissive license (MIT) rather than a copyleft license (GPL), Microsoft can add any proprietary extensions it wants. "Permissive" licenses are only permissive for the creator and other developers (only sometimes), not for the end user.

In order to contribute you have to sign away your rights, so it's only permissive to MS. It's a pervasive view on open source, cheered by sockpuppets, making people believe MS is now a open source company.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#482
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because VSCode is under a permissive license (MIT) rather than a copyleft license (GPL), Microsoft can add any proprietary extensions it wants. "Permissive" licenses are only permissive for the creator and other developers (only sometimes), not for the end user.

Since MS is the author, they could put it under GPL and still do this. They own the copyright.

[deleted]

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#484
post #238
post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

Fancy IDEs are lubricants for high-friction languages. If a language is already low-friction, there won't be much benefit to be gained from an IDE, as even a plain text editor will already get you near to optimal productivity in said language. Personally, I'd rather use a plain-old "code editor" (with at most syntax highlighting, but no snippets, let alone autocomplete), in part because doing so will actively steer m…

It is certainly true that languages designed for simplicity (such as go, clojure, and to some extent python) exhibit far less friction when composed in minimal editors, than [overly?] verbose/complicated languages such as Java.

However, I vehemently disagree with some of your (implied?) points. In particular, some functions offered by IDEs and other codebase management tools are almost equally useful for both simple and complicated languages. For example refactoring tools, or if we really look at the stem, code-base analysis tools that 1. parse the language, and, 2. have APIs for modifications, are some of the "power tools" that could be useful for virtually any programmer.

As an IDE-averse person, I find myself reaching out for the simpler languages far more often, and do actively dislike high-ceremony systems. All the while, I am painfully aware of the limitations of using only a [good] text editor. My main alternative (to mainstream IDEs) is to context-switch between pure code-writing episodes and refactoring/analysis/etc. periods (using other tools, most on the command line or with output to a web-browser).

Also regarding your comparison between written programs and mathematics: I think that comparison is relevant ONLY for low-churn fundamental code (such as core libraries, or generic utility libraries) and rather poor in a LOT of "business logic"/"presentation layer" code. I myself play code-golf and run several _mental_ redesigns/refactorings when working on code that should be solid and not subject to frequent revisions. In such cases, yes, the code should be readable, well designed, and simple to follow (clarity slightly preferred over performance for the core). Nearly formal and exhibiting formal/math-like traits. On the other hand, "business logic" code is inherently unstable and could require numerous revisions purely due to external requirements. Such code usually shouldn't be optimized for tight simplicity. "the first thing that came to my mind"-level clarity with comments can suffice. Common IDEs do help with the latter type of code (while, I think, not much with the former).

Beside serious analysis and modification tools, there is an extra set of features provided by many IDEs, such as lookups (lookup function/library/etc. initiated while looking at code), autocompletion (based on parsed code or just string matching), etc. These are certainly nice, but I don't think they change the landscape much between IDEs and plain text editors (or rather, editor-and-a-documentation-lookup-web–browser-on-the-side).

So, for me, IDEs are certainly valuable even if I don't use them frequently. In a more ideal setup, I would write my code in my preferred editor without much hand-holding and with just the simplest of IDE-like features. And then, separately, do codebase "polishing" with dedicated analysis tools that may or may not look like conventional IDEs.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#485
post #408
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try writing Scala in IntelliJ. It's not Idris, but it's a lot closer than C# is (and already past OCaml, IMO).

I'm not super jazzed about where Scala sits on the syntactic complexity vs expressive power plot. Seems uncomfortably close to C++ from what I've seen of it, although I know that Dotty/Scala 3 is supposed to clean it up quite a bit conceptually.

I think the reputation is wrong there - Scala's syntax is actually very simple and uniform. e.g. a {} block can just be used anywhere to pass a block of statements instead of an expression, rather than having complex rules about which keywords do or don't need braces. Function application can be written without brackets (which I guess some people see as complex, but it's a very shallow kind of complexity) so operators aren't a special case, a + b is just calling the function called "+". If anything Scala 3 feels like a step back in my book - e.g. they've added a bunch of different syntaxes for implicits rather than treating them as a single general feature that can be used for multiple things.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#486
I love how people bash the performance and memory consumption of Electron, but yet will concede vscode is somehow an exception.

You can write slow code in any language. There's games written in C or C++ for example that will get bad customer reviews for not running well enough for their level of graphics.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#487
post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

[deleted]

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#488
post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

As someone who uses all three of the editors you named, I think that each serves a pretty different purpose in practice. Each aspires to be the be-all, end-all editor/IDE, but that's just unrealistic to me. For me, I use VIM all day, every day at work (C++), because while it doesn't have the full IDE experience out of the box, it's close enough, and can be brought much closer with various plugins and knowledgeable ad…

I find CLion really nice for writing C++ + Jetbrains Vim bindings are pretty good

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#489
post #483

[deleted]

> This is the third time I'm posting this comment because it was removed, but doesn't violate any of the Hacker News guidelines. If it gets removed again, I know not to trust any discussion about VSCode on Hacker News again:

None of your comments were removed. They are all in the thread.

Re: The Era of Visual Studio Code

#490
post #238
post #198

I find this post along with the comments in "A Picture of Java in 2020" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24551390 to be incongruous with my experience as a professional developer. My first couple of years writing software I used Vim, then VSCode, then worked in a Java shop and was forced to use IntelliJ. I didn't like it at first, but now after a couple of years I cannot see how I lived without it. The idea that…

Fancy IDEs are lubricants for high-friction languages. If a language is already low-friction, there won't be much benefit to be gained from an IDE, as even a plain text editor will already get you near to optimal productivity in said language. Personally, I'd rather use a plain-old "code editor" (with at most syntax highlighting, but no snippets, let alone autocomplete), in part because doing so will actively steer m…

I like the antivirus software analogy better. If your operating system is bug ridden, yes you need an antivirus.
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