Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#481

Post by danShumway »

wheelie_boy wrote: post #285
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applicatio…

How would the ability to sideload apps force you to install apps outside of the Apple store?

I'm not forced to use FDroid just because I have an Android phone. People aren't arguing that the app store should go away, just that consumers should have a choice.

As an analogy, if I want OEM care for my car, I can get that. It's more expensive, but it offers me strict guarantees about where parts are coming from, and I don't need to worry so much that I'll get substandard care.

The existence of a third-party marketplace doesn't change anything about that situation other than forcing the OEMs to compete more and push their advantages and commitment to quality.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#482

Post by jsjohnst »

greggman3 wrote: post #469
mullingitover wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic effectively pulled it themselves when they unilaterally broke their agreement. I think Apple's cut is egregious but at the same time, they're not a monopoly. My main gripe is that they're behaving as if they're bringing value that the developers are riding on, when in reality nobody would buy iPhones if it weren't for the value that many developers are bringing to the platform, often at no cost to Apple.

Apple has 49-65% of the phone+tablet market in the USA. People keep forgetting it's irrelevant if Android is more popular the world over. Countries only bring anti-monopoly decisions based on their country's market, not the world market. Further, the market for "smartphones" is not Apple vs Google. It's Apple vs Samsung vs Motorola vs LG vs Sony. Those are smartphone makers. At the 50%+ marketshare, Apple has more th…

> Apple has more than double the market share of it's next biggest competitor

Source? The sources I’ve seen has Samsung much closer to Apple than that (30-35% vs 40-45%).

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#483

Post by Godel_unicode »

monadic2 wrote: post #462
js2 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the parody, but it's not really equivalent. The original Apple parody was to convince consumers to switch from one platform (PC) to a different platform (Mac). Now, maybe you believe Apple, in the form of iOS, has become Big Brother. Fine, in that case, Epic should provide its own gaming platform. But Epic isn't trying to destroy Big Brother here. It still wants to run on Big Brother's platform. It just doesn'…

It stopped being Big Brother's platform when they sold their first phone to a consumer.

Except it didn't. People wish that this was true, for lots of freedom related reasons. But it's not. The proof is pretty clear in the situation we're seeing now; if you actually controlled your iPhone, you and Epic could decide not to involve Apple. You cannot do that.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#485

Post by addled »

tommymachine wrote: post #447
addled wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This got me wondering... What happens when the price of an in-app purchase is negative? Does Apple pay the developer 30%?

they don't have a price tier that goes negative

Ah, thanks for clarifying, that makes sense.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#486

Post by Sargos »

BurningFrog wrote: post #477
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? For one thing, that is how you get viruses. This is amusingly similar to the mask refusal arguments. > People would get bad software on their phones, but last I checked, this is happening already "My proposal would lead to bad things, but there already are bad things" is a terrible argument.

People are perfectly free to use Apple App Store and stay free from viruses and have a nice curated environment. Nothing changes for them if you allow sideloading. The ONLY change is that you have the OPTION to run software Apple doesn't officially sanction. That's just a basic freedom right there and it's hard to see any rational argument against it.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#487

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

dgrin91 wrote: post #368
js2 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the parody, but it's not really equivalent. The original Apple parody was to convince consumers to switch from one platform (PC) to a different platform (Mac). Now, maybe you believe Apple, in the form of iOS, has become Big Brother. Fine, in that case, Epic should provide its own gaming platform. But Epic isn't trying to destroy Big Brother here. It still wants to run on Big Brother's platform. It just doesn'…

Epic stated that they want to create their own separate app store outside of apple, but are unable to because apple does not allow sideloading. So no, Epic doesn't want to run on Big Brother's platform.

The platform is not merely the App Store. The hardware, the OS, the APIs, they are all part of the platform.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#488

Post by risyachka »

dannyw wrote: post #415
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #389

One of the biggest hurdles in trying to take antitrust action against Apple, I suspect, will be in proving that App Store policies cause harm to consumers rather than developers. There seem to be HN-favored narratives of "iOS users would rise up against the walled garden if they only understood" and "iOS users are too stupid and sheeplike to understand and rise up," but there is a more prosaic narrative of "iOS users…

Epic Games can argue that a cheaper price results in more demand, ie more profits for them even if the unit price is the same. But I don’t think they need to argue that. The cornerstone of US antitrust law is cheaper prices for consumers. This example demonstrates that.

But the point of business is making money. Apple has no monopoly in smartphone market. There are many choices. And if the court will force them to lower prices - will it start forcing price policy on other non-monopoly companies?

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#489

Post by Whatarethese »

CarbyAu wrote: post #430

The problem here is Apples user market capture. Through iOS devices Apple has created a market of users they are the very protective gatekeeper for. Windows PC user market. Not locked down. Though MS has a store you have Steam, EGS, GOG, Origin, UBS etc for games alone. Let alone productivity apps. Android market. Not locked down. Though google play store is the gorilla other stores exist. I like F-Droid. EPICS Unrea…

Having to launch games from 5 different shitty desktop programs is terrible for the user.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#490

Post by Sargos »

ernst_klim wrote: post #282
mapgrep wrote: post #198

You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate. But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business…

> Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? Yes, I have. You put unnecessary limits on our freedom to agree on certain contracts. Hence your measures are authoritarian, you try to restrict my freedom. In my opinion it's unethical to restrict people's freedom to make contracts willingly, if it hurts not any third party. As a consumer, I think apple is doing the right thing, and I totally a…

I have to assume you're not trolling but those are some impressive mental gymnastics my friend.

If Apple allowed sideloading then you're experience would be 100% identical. You would have the freedom to continue using the App Store just like you do today and have a nice curated experience. Contracts would continue to work just like they do today. The thing is, the rest of us would have -more- freedom as we could, optionally and of our own accord, use apps outside of the App Store as well. Nobody is harmed and everyone is happy. Everyone either has the same amount of or more freedom and safety.

Post reply on HN