Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#481

Post by stunt » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

fallingfrog wrote: post #453

If any other country in the world did this to, say, Facebook, we would denounce them as an illegitimate dictator. Astonishing.

That literally has happened already when Iran banned Facebook and Twitter during protest against election fraud that lead to Ahmadinejad to stay in power for second term.

However, Iran banned Facebook merely because it was being used by protesters to share content about police brutality during protest.

So I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison.

I think governments are realizing that social networks are important strategic service because of the amount of data they capture. Before internet era countries were protecting way less data about their citizens with their teeths.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#482

Post by dontcarethrow2 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

Sigh, very hypocritical but I guess we can't let a non-american company siphon our data. I wouldn't mind if we didn't keep yelling 'freedom' and 'free market' every week into the social abyss. But but China does it too you say? They never claimed theirs is a free market did they? Definitely solidifying for me, banning social media apps LMAO! Their minds are only for our feed no? Good proof that we are easily manipulated by feeds. Why not educate for better content consumption? Oh because then we will lose our own influence. So lets remain dumb and stare at screens only approved by our great western lords. Pathetic IC, pathetic.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#483

Post by bayesian_horse » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

throwaway2474 wrote: post #451

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

> If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app If you want to talk to someone in China, you have to use WeChat and have your entire conversation mined by the CCP. There’s no encryption and no alternative. The writing has been on the wall for years that the US will be left with no choice but to blacklist Chinese apps in the same manner.

As far as I understand it, WeChat is less useful as a means of disseminating misinformation or other social media manipulation, whereas the problem with TikTok is less about potential surveillance.

Thus it may make more sense to ban TikTok than WeChat. And always assume the CCP is listening to unencrypted communication. In fact, they are probably mining our comments in Hacker News.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#484

Post by eru » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

bayesian_horse wrote: post #477

eru wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why restrict what American customers can do just because China restricts what Chinese customers can do? Do you also suppose that it would be a good idea for you to hit your head repeatedly against a wall, if I start doing so?

The bigger problem is that when American users use TikTok, the Chinese government gets a say in their social media exposure. Nobody should be using TikTok voluntarily, in my opinion. There should be a PR-effort led by governments, parties or NGOs to tell people why they shouldn't use TikTok.

I don't know enough about TikTok to have an opinion on them in particular. But I do agree that it should be up to people to decide whether they want to use TikTok.

An information campaign like you suggest might be justified. Though given how politicized everything seems to be, I suspect it might backfire.

Btw, would you like to make it illegal for people to send their personal information directly via email to the CCP?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#485

Post by FraKtus » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

We are on HN here, right? Does anybody was able to do a man in the middle inspection to prove that the app is spying on Users?

Does anybody did inspect the binary and found a back door in the app?

In am working in video and I find that the tool they did develop allowing kids to remix video succeeded were previous startup failed...

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#486

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

burtonator wrote: post #62

zelly wrote: post #35

Hopefully this will raise awareness on PWAs. Hopefully using PWAs on mobile will be normalized by the 18-24 year olds. TikTok's PWA seems intentionally gimped (you can't even search) but I will bet it will suddenly start working once it disappears from the Western app stores. Is there anything TikTok does that the Web Platform + WASM cannot do? (besides spying)

I'm not even sure POTUS can ban a site just by an executive order... unless I'm REALLY weak on US law... but a PWA wouldn't stop this. Most of the mobile APIs aren't available on PWA and if the site is blocked via route it won't help

[deleted]

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#487

Post by steventhedev » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 12:59 PM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #430

Twisell wrote: post #293

Not US citizen here. Can someone explain how in a democracy the chief executive can singlehandedly decide to ban a media only a few month before elections? I can't make any sense of that, it seems wrong at so many levels...

The short answer is that he can't. The president has no power to ban TikTok. The president also has no control over how the app is distributed or its connectivity. He can say whatever he wants, and he can strongarm the agencies he has some control over (like the FCC), but there's simply no mechanism by which a ban can be enforced, legal or technical. Unless Google and Apple decide to voluntarily remove it from their…

Most likely it will be added to the OFAC sanction list at which point both Google and apple will delist the app within a few days. You can read up on how the SDN lists are basically the long arm of US law and can completely excise someone from modern society (even if they live outside the US). Banks will refuse to complete payments, merchants will refuse service, shipping companies will return packages, etc.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#488

Post by totetsu » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

rewq4321 wrote: post #429

rsa25519 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that a platform is being banned that's not tied to particular speech. I still think it's wrong for an individual to be able to do this

Platforms can be heavily tied to particular speech - e.g. Parler, Gab, etc. Banning a platform can hinder the groups that tend to use those platforms. It seems kind of absurd to just ban one of the most popular apps in the world over night like this, especially with a US company about to buy it. On the other hand, I agree that China has had an unfair advantage in terms of banning US apps. But an overnight ban? This c…

And heavliy tied speaker identity, and audience attention, that makes speech heard

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#489

Post by stunt » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

This is exactly the kind of power that you don't want any government to have. I'm sure we will continue to see more of this happening in the future.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#490

Post by bayesian_horse » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #439

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

This "winner takes all" aspect of social networking seems like exactly the kind of thing that government regulation and/or clever technical design should be used to prevent, to ensure continued competition in the market. If it stops Chinese corporations getting an advantage great. But it seems ublikely to happen while US companies have the advantage, and once they start to lose it, it will probably be too late.

I don't see a way for government regulation to restrict social media companies from gaining market dominance.

Even splitting doesn't help. You can try to split the main social network off from some other profit-generating activities, but they would probably start those up again, after some time. You can't split the social network, because then users of the smaller parts just join the bigger part again.

Currently we don't know how to do it, except encourage new companies to rise.