> Would you then call Zoom out as somehow evil for shutting down accounts that broadcast child porn live? Yes? Obviously? They should report the account-holder to the police - or, if the police refuse to do their jobs, to armed vigilantees - for arrest and prosecution (repectively lynching); if such people want to broadcast video evidence of their crimes, lets make sure to deliver their Darwin award ASAP. > So then i…
He said: “Let's say for a minute that hosting/distributing child porn wasn't illegal“
I'm assuming that rape is still illegal, or ("if the police refuse to do their jobs") that some extralegal mechanism exists.
You could give Whereby [1] a try. I really liked it when it was named "appear.in" (that's now a completely different company), and used it for a bit, until my work switched to Teams. Whereby is, as far as I can tell, completely owned by a Norwegian registered company. 1: https://whereby.com
A Whereby-developer here. It's awesome you recommend us. You can turn on "mobile mode" in advanced device settings, and it should be a bit better. But we're a bit limited in how CPU-friendly we really can be, living in the browser. Not that we can't improve, there's certainly extra tricks we could try - but not easily without also lowering fps and resolution. I don't think "low resource use" is a big selling-argument…
Nice! Fellow Scandinavian here.
Just some feedback. I think the free tier was a little unclear.
> Free
> Personal use
> 1 user
> 1 meeting room
I have trouble reading this. It's as if I coule only create one room for myself without having anybody to chat with.
Has anyone noticed, if you mention chinese, you actively get your point decreased by one point.
Yes, I agree. It seems each Chinese company has a secret relationship with the Chinese government.
But what they didn't notice is that the American embassy would censor your social account and content when you apply for Visa. American is the biggest surveillance country but takes it for granted.
I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…
I truly question whether Zoom is a U.S. company at all if a large number of its developers and servers are located in China. Its founder is also ethnically Chinese (although he also holds American citizenship).
This company seems to be largely influenced by China, either through its founder or other means.
Zoom is a company I have loved so far, but a lot of this is starting to really rub me the wrong way and I really don't want to have to go find another solution. However, without some sort of reversal, this is enough for me to deal with the mess of doing that.
I've tried Google Meet, Jitsi, and some other things, but Zoom is the only service that my 6+ year old laptop can handle for more than 5 min without nosediving into 100% CPU usage and freezing up. Does anyone have other suggestions? Either for other services or for troubleshooting Jitsi?
My laptop is almost 10 years old an works fine with Jitsi and Linux Mint on Firefox.
I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…
You are oversimplifying the issue, in my opinion. Zoom has R&D office in China. If Chinese authorities come to Zoom with a violation of local law, Zoom has two options. First ignore the request and this means that the company is likely to be banned in China or comply with the request and get blowback in US. This issue is not unique to Zoom and each company makes its own decision. For instance, Google and Facebook fail to comply and are banned in China. But Apple does comply with Chinese laws and there are number of apps that are simply not available in China but are available in US. However, I wouldn't make a judgement that Google is good, but Apple is bad. Nor is this issue limited in China. Same thing applies to EU. EU has passed GDPR laws that all US companies have to comply with if they want to do business in EU. Again, some decided to comply with GDPR, others exited the market. Even in US this issue exists. When the government tells Google that they can't offer their services to Iran or sell to Huawei. Google chose to apply. You can try to make an argument that complying with US government orders is good, but complying with other government orders (EU, China, Brazil) is bad. This may work for you if you are an American, but the rest of the world knows about the Patriot Act, Edward Snowden and NSA. You could also make an argument that complying with any government is bad and the way PRISM is enabled by US tech is terrible. But if US companies start ignoring US laws, no matter how terrible they are, the only right thing to do is to shut the company down. It's called a rule of law. I am writing this not to say that Zoom is good or bad, but to prevent oversimplifying the issue or vilifying specific companies, countries or governments.
I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…
There is really no excuse for "accidentally" routing through Chinese servers for a service. To me the reasons are as shallow as Google's "error in algorithm".
Just recently YouTube "accidentally" deleted the account of a pro-democracy channel in Hong Kong with more than 600k subscribers [1]. Incidentally, this has never happened to pro-Chinese channels.
> surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), The first time I read that Zoom is the shell (in the USA) while the majority of work is being done in China, I thought the exact same thing. That China has everyone's face 3D scanned by now (multiple photos from multiple angles), everyone's voiceprint, everyone's IP, transcripts of what was said and by who... Now they…
"That China has everyone's face 3D scanned by now (multiple photos from multiple angles), everyone's voiceprint, everyone's IP, transcripts of what was said and by who" As a native Chinese, I haven't been scanned by 3D scanner. How do you get this conclusion?
Presumably they mean that if you use your web cam with zoom they would be able to construct a 3D model of your face from the camera feed as you move your head around.
I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…
Our organisation has just reversed course on zoom and it is no longer our go to video conferencing tool.
I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…
I totally agree with you, there's a very high probability that the Chinese gov is recording everything.
But is that any better than being 100 % sure that the US gov is doing it?
I mean, what is the point of "the Chinese may be listening this is horrible!" when we know for a fact that the US are listening and most probably multiple european countries.
Nowadays, you must assume that whatever you do online is recorded by multiple states and may be used against you one day.