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Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

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Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#481

Post by arejaytee »

wolco wrote: post #225
silviogutierrez wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this charitably: I guess I agree. k8s is definitely overpowered for my needs. And I'm almost certain my blog or my business will never need that full power. Fully aware of that. But I'm not sure one can find something of "the right power" that has the same support from cloud providers, the open source community, the critical mass, etc. [1] Eventually, a standard "simplified" abstraction over k8s will emerge.…

Curious why run it at all? The cost must be 10 times more this way. It is mostly for the fun of learning. I come from the opposite approach. I have 4 servers two digital ocean $5 and two vulr $2.50 instances. One holds the db. One server as the frontend/code. One server to do heavy work and another to server a heavy site and holds backups. For $15 I'm hosting hundreds of sites, running so many background processes. I…

Are you using a framework (cPanel etc) for this or just individual servers talking to each other? Need to move my hosting to something more reliable and cheaper...

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#482

Post by slim »

edwinyzh wrote: post #448
zelly wrote: post #394

Main benefits of Kubernetes: • Lets companies brag about having # many production services at any given time • Company saves money by not having to hire Linux sysadmins • Company saves money by not having to pay for managed cloud products if they don't want to • Declarative, version controlled, git-blameable deployments • Treating cloud providers like cattle not pets It's going to eat the world (already has?). I was…

or a Free Pascal server (powered by mORMot ( https://github.com/synopse/mORMot) )? Natively compiled, high performance, and supports almost all OS's and CPU's

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Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#483

Post by LoSboccacc »

the main thing I like about them: configuration. it's trivial to split integration configuration from applicative configuration from deployment configuration, it's trivial to version configurations,

it's not unique in what it does, but even with puppet and the likes you always had this or that exception because networking, provider images varying selinux defaults etc.

kuberent on it's own already covered most ground, but configmap and endpoints really tie it together in a super convenient package

it's not without pitfalls, like ms aks steal 2gb from each node so you have to be aware of that and plan accordingly, but still.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#484

Post by foxhill »

pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #454
zelly wrote: post #394

Main benefits of Kubernetes: • Lets companies brag about having # many production services at any given time • Company saves money by not having to hire Linux sysadmins • Company saves money by not having to pay for managed cloud products if they don't want to • Declarative, version controlled, git-blameable deployments • Treating cloud providers like cattle not pets It's going to eat the world (already has?). I was…

I am ready! NetBSD is running on the toaster. I think haproxy can do 10K req/s. tcpserver on the backends. I only write robust shell scripts, short and portable. As a spectator, not a tech worker who uses these popular solutions, I would say there seems to be a great affinity amongst in the tech industry for anything that is (relatively) complex. Either that, or the only solutions people today can come up with are co…

> I would say there seems to be a great affinity amongst in the tech industry for anything that is (relatively) complex.

hah, i've noticed that too - specifically around k8s/deployments/system architecture too. i've taken to calling it complexity fetishisation.

i think it stems from the belief/hope that, whilst they don't "google sized" data today, they need to allow for it.

i'll take two toasters, please.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#485

Post by SahAssar »

zomglings wrote: post #447
closeparen wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Before Docker there were a lot of different solutions for software developers to package up their web applications to run on a server. There are basically two relevant package managers. And say what you will about systemd, service units are easy to write. It's weird to me that the tooling for building .deb packages and hosting them in a private Apt repository is so crusty and esoteric. Structurally these things "sho…

Which two package managers do you mean? dpkg, rpm, nix, snap, dnf, and I'm sure someone is going to respond with package managers I forgot.

I'm guessing they meant to say package formats, in which case they'd be deb and rpm. Those were the only two that are really common in server deployments running linux I'd guess.

dnf is a frontend to rpm, snap is not common for server use-cases, nix is interesting but not common, dpkg is a tool for installing .deb.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#486

Post by nonines »

pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #454
zelly wrote: post #394

Main benefits of Kubernetes: • Lets companies brag about having # many production services at any given time • Company saves money by not having to hire Linux sysadmins • Company saves money by not having to pay for managed cloud products if they don't want to • Declarative, version controlled, git-blameable deployments • Treating cloud providers like cattle not pets It's going to eat the world (already has?). I was…

I am ready! NetBSD is running on the toaster. I think haproxy can do 10K req/s. tcpserver on the backends. I only write robust shell scripts, short and portable. As a spectator, not a tech worker who uses these popular solutions, I would say there seems to be a great affinity amongst in the tech industry for anything that is (relatively) complex. Either that, or the only solutions people today can come up with are co…

Same feeling here but I came to understand that it's the enterprise and the design by committee that brings in the complexity.

K8S is developed by a multitude of very large companies. Each with their own agenta/needs. All of them have to be addressed. Thus the complexity. If you think about it they probably manage to keep the complexity to relatively low levels. Maybe because it is pushed to the rest of the ecosystem (see service meshes for example).

Being pushed by the behemoths also explains the popularity. Smaller companies and workers feel that this is a safe investment in terms of money and time familiarizing with the tech stack so they jump on. And the loop goes on.

Main business reason for all that though I think it's the need of Google et all to compete with AWS creating a cloud platform that comes to be a standard and belongs to no-one really. In this sense it is a much better, versatile and open ended openstack attempt.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#487

Post by cinquemb »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #483

the main thing I like about them: configuration. it's trivial to split integration configuration from applicative configuration from deployment configuration, it's trivial to version configurations, it's not unique in what it does, but even with puppet and the likes you always had this or that exception because networking, provider images varying selinux defaults etc. kuberent on it's own already covered most ground,…

> it's not without pitfalls, like ms aks steal 2gb from each node so you have to be aware of that and plan accordingly, but still.

This is what I hate alot about things like k8, docker, etc is the memory profile… pretty much makes it a non starter if you want to run it on anything low cost.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#488

Post by Perseids »

toyg wrote: post #478
tutfbhuf wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see your point for small hobby projects. But enterprise web development in C++ is no fun at all. For example: "Google says that about 70% of all serious security bugs in the Chrome codebase are related to memory management and safety." https://www.zdnet.com/article/chrome-70-of-all-security-bugs... Developer time for fixing these bugs is in most cases more expensive, than to throw more hardware at your software…

Rust and Go could help you there, and their deployment story is as excellent as C/C++: just compile and ship. However, their learning curve is pretty steep (particularly Rust) and most developers don’t enjoy having to worry about low-level issues, which makes recruitment and retention a problem. Whereas one can be reasonably proficient with Python/Ruby in a week, Java/C# is taught in school, and everyone has to know…

Do those highly available developers have the same quality as the Rust developers you could get, though? (On average.) I'd wager there is a correlation between interest in deeper topics as required by Rust and good long term design and quality. I've seen how marvelously efficient a small team of very talented people can be be. To replace them with the average highly available developers you would need far more than doubly the people and some extra manager, just because communication scales so badly. The 10x developer is a myth, but I think the 5x development team is realistic in the right circumstances.

Disclaimer: Neither do I claim to be a very good developer, nor do I think you, the reader, is only average. Just given that you are reading Hackernews is a strong indicator for your interest in reflection and self improvement, regardless of your favorite language.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#489

Post by p10jkle »

pojzon wrote: post #458
clutchdude wrote: post #12

It's not because of the networking stack. I've yet to meet anyone who can easily explain how the CNI, services, ingresses and pod network spaces all work together. Everything is so interlinked and complicated that you need to understand vast swathes of kubernetes before you can attach any sort of complexity to the networking side. I contrast that to it's scheduling and resourcing components which are relatively easy…

When you are coming from old sysadmin world and you mastered unix systems architecture and software - what k8s does is very straightforward because its the same you already know. K8S is extremely complicated for huge swarm of webdevs and java developers that really reqlly dont understand how the stuff they use/code really works. K8S was supposed to decrease the need for real sysadmins but in my view it actually incre…

I think you're right for small clusters, you end up needing more sysadmins. But to manage 1000 node Kubernetes cluster, I suspect it can be done with less administration

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#490

Post by nonines »

acd wrote: post #137

Devops/arch here, I think Kubernetes solves deployment in a standardized way and we get fresh clean state with every app deploy. Plus it restarts applications/pods that crashes. That said I think Kubernetes may be at its Productivity journey on the tech Hype cycle. Networking in Kubernetes is complicated. This complication and abstraction has a point if you are a company at Google scale. Most shops are not Google sca…

Good point on the app restart. I think K8S is in some ways the equivalent of Erlang BEAM for the masses for the cloud.
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