Career advice for people with bad luck • Hacker News Board

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#481

Post by sh87 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

8bitsrule wrote: post #409

blululu wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness it does break down constantly, but I can usually repair it on my own. I should mention that it handles well in difficult terrain, and it appreciates in value over time.

Philosophy will get through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no philosophy. " Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself." — Rumi

> Philosophy will get through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no philosophy.

Good quote!

I always feel philosophy is the abode for people who couldn't get sucked in by religion.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#482

Post by jlokier » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

Arete314159 wrote: post #230

mdorazio wrote: post #67

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that ma…

I can speak to one of your points! I got dealt a bad hand in terms of health issues. However, a few years before I developed my health issues, I happened to have a long talk with a guy who had advanced MS. He told me that after his diagnosis, he tried to sock away as much money as possible and go for higher-paying jobs, as he knew that one day he'd become fully disabled and have to live on disability. Also, disabilit…

> - Looked for jobs with slightly under full-time work loads to allow me time to rest (found only one for 2 years, but the extra rest helped me slow down disease progression a lot)

I think it's awful that such jobs are hard to find, considering the effect on disease progression of all things.

My own only very distantly related anecdote. I'd had an interview with a hiring manager, who would be my boss, who liked me and was keen to employ. But he didn't get to make the decision; he passed me to Head of HR who made the final decision on all hires.

The conversation with Head of HR seemed to go well, and I would have taken almost any terms (including a pay cut) because I really liked that job. But he (HR) wouldn't say how much they'd pay or give any clues about what level they operated at. He insisted on negotiating by insisting that I make the first move with no information, and say what would would make me happy. So I asked if they would consider a 4 day week. No pressure, I'd happily do 5 but 4 would be something I'd like.

That, it turns out, was a "red flag" for them, the idea that I might not be loyal enough to the company that I'd want to spend a day doing something else. This despite my evident eagerness for that particular job. There was no concern about not getting enough work done; they had enough people. It was all about concern that I might do something else with my time off.

I didn't get the job. Despite getting a message from the hiring manager that he was going to send me an offer the next morning, it was blocked by HR the following day with concerns about loyalty being given internally as the reason. Of course HR told me something else entirely.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#483

Post by jlokier » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

techpop10 wrote: post #299

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misinformation for people who are trying.

huh?

I speculate that the GP means:

For people who are already networking as much as they can, working hard on their personal brand, etc. and still finding it doesn't seem to be working out for them (probably most people), you're telling them to do what they are already doing and that it will make them more successful.

That's isn't useful. It's non-actionable advice, and empirically wrong in their experience.

For people in that situation, your advice is pointing them in the wrong direction, and that's what I read into "misinformation" in the GP comment.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#484

Post by Viliam1234 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

meddlepal wrote: post #26

Tade0 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to share any subset o values. Otherwise there's no space for dialogue. I believe this is the norm.

Are people using values to mean interests? I need to share some interests: sports, beer, model building, architecture etc... Values though? I can't see that being the norm unless your shared interest is politics, religion, or social order/dynamics.

> Are people using values to mean interests?

This was a mistake I made in my 20s. No, values are not interests. Values are things like "would this person stab me in the back, given opportunity?". That can happen in sport, job, anywhere.

From long-term perspective, just like you lose most work-friends when you change your work, you lose most of your hobby-friends when you change a hobby or simply not have enough time for the hobby anymore. Values seem to stay for much longer time.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#485

Post by Viliam1234 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

pmiller2 wrote: post #369

protonimitate wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great advice. I see a lot of people in tech with inflated ideas of what success means, and they're almost all tied strictly to salary/net worth. Yeah, having money is nice, but if that's all you base happiness/idea of success on, its going to be a bumpy road. >There are a lot of self-conscious IT people in the midwest making $70k/year feeling like failures I understand how this can point of view can develop, but one…

> Yeah, having money is nice, As someone who was broke for many years and now is less broke (cash is flowing, there's money in my accounts, but I'm deeply in negative net worth due to student debt), I think you're understating the issue, vastly. Simply put, money is freedom. If you have it, you can do things people who don't have it can't. If you have enough of it, you can do just about anything. And, I'm not necessa…

Also, if you have an absurd amount of money, your days become 8-10 hours longer because you don't need a job to pay your bills, which effectively doubles your remaining (awake) lifespan.

Yeah, everyone knows that rich people live longer on average, but most people don't realize how much longer.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#486

Post by acdha » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

caymanjim wrote: post #161

mywittyname wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but hardly anyone speaks to references. I'd be surprised if this were universal. I've been the reference for several people and had references checked for every job that I've had. I can totally understand why a company wouldn't check references (bias, mainly), but HR is full of a lot of cargo cult superstitions.

I'm probably biased here due to the length of my career; at this point, my resume is extensive and speaks for itself. References may be more important if you've got less experience.

The times where I’ve learned someone was lying on their resume, it was always someone claiming extensive experience. Several were managers, where it’s easier to bluff, but there were applicants for senior technical positions who were apparently hoping nobody would expect them to deliver.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#487

Post by NineStarPoint » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 8:09 PM UTC

z3t4 wrote: post #351

dakna wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably already know that, but sometimes it helps to hear it again: The world is a competitive place, and a lot of success factors are outside of your control. (timing, pre-existing resources, sheer luck) What you can control is exactly what you are already doing: Work really hard and make the best of what you have. Come up with a good long term plan and execute it. Do life decisions that help with that plan. Th…

Many people think that if they work really hard it will pay off. But its the other other way, first you discover that something pays off, then you can start to work hard to get even better. So it should really say work smart.

While it’s true that working hard is not sufficient to have things pay off, I think waiting to find something that pays off to work hard would result in most people missing the opportunity they were given. To sustainably work hard is a skill, and unless you’ve practiced it in advance of an opportunity showing itself you’ll find yourself unable to work hard when you need to.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#488

Post by Viliam1234 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

rovolo wrote: post #446

friendlybus wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He went on an elimination diet because his family has some nasty immune problems. It’s mundane, I don’t get the controversy.

It's controversial because it sounds pseudo-scientific. Why would removing all vegetables from his diet help with an autoimmune disorder? His daughter's blog called "Don’t Eat That" had the tagline "The food pyramid is a lie, fat is good for you, and many (if not most) health problems are treatable with diet alone." (though, it does now say "Do not take this as medical advice. I am not a doctor. This is my story and…

People used to believe that eating fat makes you fat, and eating sugar makes you sweet (okay, the latter is maybe an exaggeration), because it seemed so obvious. Later they realized that actually eating lots of sugar makes you fat. That's progress. The sugar producers want you to believe the old version; they love to emphasise how "low-fat" their heaps of sugar are. (Every time you read "low-fat", translate it mentally to "contains lots of sugar". Every time you read "low-sugar", translate it mentally to "contains lots of artificial sweeteners". Hint: the actually healthy stuff, such as fruit and vegetables, doesn't need to protest too much.) Education about this part is a good thing.

On the other hand, removing vegetables from diet goes completely against the currect best knowledge. You should eat a lot of vegetables, preferably raw. Like, okay, you can cook your broccoli; but then eat some other raw vegetable, and some fruit (uncooked, without extra sugar). -- However, I have never heard Peterson recommend removing vegetables as a general advice for others; it was always in context of finding out what works for his autoimmune disorder, because the standard medicine didn't help him much, so he experimented with crazy things.

So, these are two different things. One is highly controversial, the other not at all.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#489

Post by Viliam1234 » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:36 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #365

xupybd wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly but this is more to counter letting your kids go wild such that as they grow up you don't like to around them. By ining them how to behave well you equip them will the tools to interact in society. Of course if you are a horrible person you might dislike them for their good behaviours. But if you're a horrible person chances are you'll mess up your kids with or without that rule.

I don't think people "let" their kids go wild so much as run out of parenting skills. That's what makes the idea irrational: use your parenting skills to make up for your lack of parenting skills. All you have to do is decide to do so!

> I don't think people "let" their kids go wild so much as run out of parenting skills.

There is a difference between not being able to control your child fully, and not even trying. In my experience, most parents are trying, but I have met one or two who did not care, seemingly believing that whatever their kid does is perfectly okay, because hey, it's just a small child... completely ignoring that fact that other kids around, of the same age, are well behaved.

Now, this strategy of making excuses may work well while the child is small. Like, adults will look at a misbehaving 4 years old and only think "what a horrible child... and what a horrible parent" and walk away. But as your child grows up, the environment becomes less forgiving, and it becomes more difficult for you to instill good habits. If the child's behavior irritates you, as a parent, you can bet that it irritates unrelated people at least twice as much. This creates a spiral, when the environment and your child become hostile to each other.

On the other hand, if you succeed to instill pleasant behavior in your child, it can create a positive spiral, when other people enjoy the presence of your child and by their attention reward the nice behavior, and your child has more pleasant life and more opportunities to further improve social skills.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#490

Post by andrelgomes » Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

> Don’t think that there won’t be politics because there wasn’t politics before. Politics emerge when the players believe the game is zero sum. In a recession, the players are more likely to believe the game is zero sum.

Another related quote from someone I read on another post "People call it politics when they are losing" [0]. A major draw to work for a early/medium startups is that there is "no" politics/bureaucracy, to get out of the "cog of the machine". As the company grows, processes are naturally developed and when the term "politics" is more frequently used. This projected recession is accelerating the development of processes, i.e. politics, for all companies.

[edit] [o]: hackernews, motohagiography