481–490 of 1001 posts
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You can only unionise if you struggle?
I view unions as something that's only essential in the worst case scenario. If you truly need one then I fully support that, but they come with a huge cost to innovation. It's important to not forget the trade off.
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"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should. I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.
They don't unionize though, they have a player's union. This is not the same thing. There is no collective bargaining process in professional sports that matches the typical public sector and athletes are not salaried employees. Nothing stops the top performers from negotiating a more lucrative contract. They also make a huge portion of their earnings via 3rd party engagements which a FT salaried employee cannot do.…
These are LITERALLY the same thing.
There's nothing that stops ANY type of union (including public employees) from negotiating caps or rewarding top performers. The NFLPA union works this way because the union represents the values of the workforce. A tech workers union can do the same if they wish.
If a tech workers union wanted, they could negotiate for things like user privacy, or whatever else the people at that specific workplace wanted. Doing so would be a trade-off in a negotiation, of course. So if the workers cared more about that than layoff protection, then they could try to trade one for the other.
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What's with the anecdotes on this thread? The OP was trying to make substantive statements about unions in general and why anecdotes are ineffective in describing them, and your counter was to provide yet another anecdote?
Anti-union astroturfing is to be expected in a thread like this. Other tech companies are terrified of something similar happening, and are going all-out with misinformation. The best thing you can do is upvote factual information.
Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…
> Generally speaking for well run, ethical companies, whose management actively try to do the right thing, unions add unnecessary redundancy and bureaucracy. The only type of "well run, ethical companies" where unions are redundant are worker-owned cooperatives . Otherwise, an employer, regardless of how ethical they are, can never replicate the most critical aspect of unions: collective bargaining rights . Sure, an…
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>junior graphic designer I don't think anyone says tech employee and is referring to graphic designers/anyone in that area. 99% sure anyone who hears tech employee is thinking software development. EDIT: How on Earth can anyone downvote this statement? If you ask 10 people to name 10 tech companies, not one of them is going to pick a game studio.
Graphic designers work at most tech companies I've worked at, and I've never worked at a game studio. They definitely can be classified quite reasonably as tech employees. Also, here in Montreal, most people's list of well-known local tech employers would absolutely include at least one or two of the many game studios here.
What percentage of employees at Google/Apple/Microsoft do you think are "graphic designers", and what percentage are "software developers"?
Your argument to create a union is that the 1% of employees need protection. Honestly I agree video game industries could use a union. But the presence of a graphics designer at Google does not mean every employee needs to unionize.
1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…
Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…
Only if one assumes that management pays based on the same ethos of meritocracy. They generally do not, which is why a force to oppose the management 'union' can result in a return to meritocracy. As with any balancing force, it is possible for the reaction to be far too strong and swing in the opposite direction, but that isn't reason to avoid any attempt to balance.
1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…
Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…
1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…
Just in terms of salary isn’t an union somewhat contradictory to the engineering ethos of meritocracy? I mean we’d like to think that the good ideas win and impact and outcome matters. We hold up the 10x engineers and those that make an outsized contribution to the industry / company / product right? Shouldn’t they get higher compensation compared to the rest of the work force? How do we square that with collective b…
(Though in practice you're correct: unions rarely exist for jobs with more individualized pay.)
I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…
Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. What's wrong with "mediocre" employees staying employed?