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Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#481

Post by HBKXNCUO »

speleding wrote: post #477
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Professionally trained Minimum wage. High school diploma. >day care professionals probably do that job just as well as me, or better. If you are truly so terrible at taking care of children that you cannot care for your own flesh and blood better than minimum wage workers can simultaneously care for multiple children to which they have no personal emotional attachment, then please, get your children away from yourse…

> Minimum wage. High school diploma. No way! The training after high school for day care professionals in my country takes 4 years and is much better paid than minimum wage. If nothing else, I could never hope to beat them on experience. There are Nordic countries where a minimum of one day of day care a week is actually government mandated because it's been proven to be good for the kids.

>If nothing else, I could never hope to beat them on experience.

That's fine. Unless you are emotionally stunted, they could never hope to beat you on love.

>There are Nordic countries where a minimum of one day of day care a week is actually government mandated because it's been proven to be good for the kids.

Starting at what age? Is this what you're referring to: https://theglobepost.com/2018/12/13/denmark-compulsory-dayca...

If so, that's quite a bit different from what you described. That sounds like it's more about forcibly integrating foreign populations. They're not targeting Danish children with that.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#482

Post by petra »

com2kid wrote: post #480
petra wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those jobs are important(1), but most replacable - many people can do that job. And I'm not saying thry don't carry done value , just that raising your kids well, in my view, is much more important. (1)are all cooks and restaurant that necessary ?

> (1)are all cooks and restaurant that necessary ? The idea seems pretty ubiquitous, as soon as a society gets any amount of wealth you'll find people being paid to cook food at scale. And cooking is one of those things that scales up very well, it doesn't have to mean fancy sit down restaurants. There are still a few places I can grab food for cheaper than what I'd be able to prepare it myself at that quality level,…

With modern preservation methods, factory made food can reach very high quality. Google the french chain picard, or micvac.

Maybe not for fried food, and salads(easy to make). but for most other types of food it can work.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#483

Post by golergka »

yorwba wrote: post #112
jaltekruse wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is the strongest case you could make for saying this ought to be the responsibility of the government. If people can make more working than childcare costs, then they can make their own decision about how to invest their own time and money. Why does the government need to pay for this, if they argument is ultimately that the wages of women now working is what ends up paying the cost of the service?…

> If people can make more working than childcare costs, then they can make their own decision about how to invest their own time and money. Why does the government need to pay for this, if they argument is ultimately that the wages of women now working is what ends up paying the cost of the service? Before a stay-at-home parent enters the workforce, they may not have the money to pay for the childcare that would free…

So, you seriously consider that a person who can get a salary that would cover child care costs wouldn't be able to borrow a single month salary worth of cash to make the transition?

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#484

Post by jonstewart »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #421
jonstewart wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my kids have been in nanny shares. That’s a bit higher end than minimum wage daycare, but, trust me, they’ve been better taken care of and more loved than if I’d had to take care of them. Comparative advantage works another way with daycare: you can benefit from hiring a professional.

>they’ve been better taken care of and more loved than if I’d had to take care of them. If you can afford to pay other people to give more love to your children than you can, then by all means, hand them off. >Comparative advantage works another way with daycare: you can benefit from hiring a professional. Do you prefer to get your love from professionals? I hope not for your wife's sake.

I love my family, thanks, and am a competent father. I don't love, and am not good at, taking care of small children all day every day, and my children would suffer if I had to do that for an extended period of time. Your first post and, especially, this one come across as quite smug and holier-than-thou. And if you were to make that remark about my wife to my face, I'd politely ask you to step outside.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#485

Post by [deleted] »

bradlys wrote: post #401
awad wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very popular in the US but multi-generational housing has existed for thousands of years in other parts of the world and solves for this, even while renting.

I don't think it "solves for this"... Those types of units are not cheap where I am and they're rare. It's not like you spend $100-200k and suddenly you have a suitable multi-generational home. Where I am - it's going to be at least $1m-2m extra. The kids can't afford that in a mortgage - let alone cash that a remodel would require.

[deleted]

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#486

Post by awad »

bradlys wrote: post #401
awad wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very popular in the US but multi-generational housing has existed for thousands of years in other parts of the world and solves for this, even while renting.

I don't think it "solves for this"... Those types of units are not cheap where I am and they're rare. It's not like you spend $100-200k and suddenly you have a suitable multi-generational home. Where I am - it's going to be at least $1m-2m extra. The kids can't afford that in a mortgage - let alone cash that a remodel would require.

Sure it does. It just might not work for you. I can certainly respect that everyone's situation is different but I do think your original comment is highly Bay Area biased. There are plenty of other (better IMO) areas that are more affordable, including New York.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#487

Post by HBKXNCUO »

jonstewart wrote: post #484
HBKXNCUO wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they’ve been better taken care of and more loved than if I’d had to take care of them. If you can afford to pay other people to give more love to your children than you can, then by all means, hand them off. >Comparative advantage works another way with daycare: you can benefit from hiring a professional. Do you prefer to get your love from professionals? I hope not for your wife's sake.

I love my family, thanks, and am a competent father. I don't love, and am not good at, taking care of small children all day every day, and my children would suffer if I had to do that for an extended period of time. Your first post and, especially, this one come across as quite smug and holier-than-thou. And if you were to make that remark about my wife to my face, I'd politely ask you to step outside.

>I love my family, thanks, and am a competent father. I don't love, and am not good at, taking care of small children all day every day, and my children would suffer if I had to do that for an extended period of time.

I don't think that's uncommon for men, and I'm sure it happens for some women too. If both of you are that way, and you are convinced your children will suffer from being taken care of by you, and you can afford to pay people that will do a better job than you, then by all means.

>And if you were to make that remark about my wife to my face, I'd politely ask you to step outside.

Just to make it clear, I am not insinuating your wife is inadequate in any way, just that I would feel bad for her if you felt that love was something you could get from professionals. I am sure she's a wonderful woman and I hope you have a great relationship with her.

My point is that these daycare workers don't love your children anywhere near the amount that you and your wife do (I assume, I don't know you personally), and they aren't going to be able to fool your children.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#488

Post by kelnos »

buboard wrote: post #359
kelnos wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to chime in and agree with this, but perhaps with a bit of a different twist. There are tons of reasons why people are pressured into having kids, and very few people reminding others that having children is a choice, not to mention a huge responsibility. I think we'd have a much happier, safer world if the only people who had kids were those who truly wanted them. Parental, spousal, and peer pressure to hav…

> is a choice, not to mention a huge responsibility. Actually, i think these two are inversely correlated. The demands from parents have become crazy for no apparent benefit. It's illegal to raise kids as they did 2 generations ago. It would become more of a choice if people at large relaxed a bit and let kids be kids or learn by themselves, or in tiny neighborhood groups.

Not sure I follow. I don't see how the changing legality of parenting style has anything to do with whether or not it's a choice to have a kid or not.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#489

Post by pergadad »

pfortuny wrote: post #57
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

“It would allow more women to enter the workforce”. I understand what the quote means but, honestly, this is one of the big wrong points of our society: that caring for the children full-time is NOT being part of the workforce. This is one of those cultural ideas embedded in XXI Century logic which only does harm and transmits the wrong message: people’s life is as valuable as the money the work or the “job” they hav…

Ask yourself: is caring for my 2-3 kids at home, cleaning the house, cooking, laundry, ... Really the most interesting way I want to spend my life?

There are some (mostly women) who choose this. There are many many more (mostly women) who do this because they don't see any other choice, either due to cultural pressure or due to financials.

There are also studies that show it's good for the kids to be with other kids and in a more structured learning environment than a home can offer.

It's not that childcare is undervalued it's that most women want to see themselves as more than just responsible for bearing and rearing children.

What you are defending is the classical conservative relationship model. Nothing wrong with that. Indeed it can be pleasant for many people. For many more it is not a satisfactory way to live their life. It's also often not satisfactory for the working partner that rarely gets to see their kids.

Now, where it gets interesting would be more flexible models like they are common in the Nordics, e.g. both parents working 60-80% and alternating childcare and household duties on different days/weeks. THAT is a progressive and for all sides positive model.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#490

Post by pnutjam »

scruple wrote: post #470
pnutjam wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point stands. The average family income in America less then $64k. I'm going to assume you make more then that, probably alot. Yes, we know you have a high cost of living. Plenty of people would love to live in CA, and make enough to stay there. I'm also going to bet you are fully funding your retirement, it's a lower percentage of your income to max out your 401k. I understand you don't feel rich, but be gratefu…

What point are they making, exactly? If you look at what they actually said, they're mischaracterizing what I've said to rant about (my apparent / perceived lack of) class consciousness. If you can follow a plot line, you'd intuit that I came to this state poor. I'm very well aware of what the lesser fortunate and folks in poverty are dealing with; I've been there myself. Thankfully without children, but I can certai…

I agree with your point. I'm high income in the midwest and dealing with the same thing. Rent and Healthcare go up and up and up.
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