Live data from Hacker News

Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

bbc.com

481–490 of 520 posts

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the big difference between your example and London which is how this thread started, is that London (where I live), is a place I can assure you is not transit-sparse. There are many, many public transit options. For example this map is the night bus map just for the area around the Bank of England, and most of those will run at 15 minute intervals: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-maps/city-of-london-nigh... Th…

I don't disagree, and my experience in London has been similar to yours. However, I was replying to someone who could not grasp that anywhere "on the planet" would poor people use Uber.

I think we Europeans sometimes tend to forget that not every society tries to achieve at least a minimum level of public transportation.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#482
post #322
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's indeed so hard to find a good Uber driver, you'd expect them to be driven out of the market by customers themselves. And if they compensate for that by eg. lower price, then how is it different from any other market. You want premium quality, you pay extra - you're fine with compromising on it, you go for the cheaper option.

> you'd expect them to be driven out of the market by customers themselves. Customers will frequently do things that are bad for them and bad for everyone, just because they have received advertising. That's why I think Uber is basically the antivaxx of taxis; they ignore regulations and break laws, putting people at risk and do everything they can in bad faith, but remain incredibly popular in some circles so I expe…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Worboys

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#483
post #328
post #198

I'm not a fan of companies like Uber or AirBnB who attempt a violent takeover of a market. However, as a consumer who needs to get from A to B, or stay at some random city, I find those services invaluable. The black cabs in London are expensive, never around when you need them, and until recently might have refused card payments (now they just seem unhappy about it). At the very least I was hoping Uber would make th…

Kapten and Bolt already exist, and give you access to substantially the same pool of drivers. Maybe some drivers are on Uber but not one of the others; that will change very quickly if Uber are banned. There's also Addison Lee, who have their own drivers, but offer a similar experience. This tunnel vision of only seeing one provider of a new but fundamentally commodity service is interesting. It reminds me a lot of h…

Do Kapten and Bolt have comparable safety features such as facial recognition for drivers? How are they satisfying the TfL's requirements to be "fit and proper"?

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what I'm missing, but why not let customers decide if they want to use a lower standards for vetting service, and let drivers decide if they want worse working conditions. Note that I don't completely agree with your statements, but assuming they're true, my question still stands.

Because the UK - like most of Europe - believes the free market is a poor mechanism to protect vulnerable people from rape and physical assault. I'm not being flippant here: customers have routinely shown that for lower prices they'll suffer almost anything, to the point that safer alternatives become uncompetitive. TfL isn't asking for much here: just that drivers are vetted properly and consistently. Every other fi…

Vetted properly and consistently like John Worboys was?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Worboys

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>, can you elaborate on this? Not the person you were replying to but sexual harassment or just creepiness is a common one here in Indianapolis. This year alone: - one friend had an Uber driver offer her perfume when she took an Uber home which creeped her out - A co-worker driving Uber on the side had a couple invite her into their home offering her use of their hot tub and telling her that she could borrow clothes…

You came to SF and are now enjoying life post-Uber. You have no idea how bad taxis were before Uber. You would never have gotten a cab pre-Uber. I once waited 1.5 hrs for a cab to pick me up from a hotel. The idea you would just hop in a taxi and travel places was impossible pre-Uber. If you were downtown, you might be able to flag a taxi but once you arrived at your destination you wouldn’t be able to flag a taxi do…

This, and worse.

Using a taxi cab in Berkeley before Lyft was a worse nightmare. It's a long story, but Berkeley has a "medallion" system ( because, um, they were afraid of a crush of taxis? ), and one business bought them all, but then went over the limit of something like 3 employees and thus would have to pay benefits. Since they were cheap, they didn't want to pay benefits ( sound familiar? ), and created lots of small sham "taxi companies". Each had a different phone number and dispatch, with the same poor cars and drivers, and the numbers were always busy. The only way to get a taxi was to get somehow to the taxi rank at Berkeley Bart, anything else, forget it. Forget living 5 miles from the train up in the hills or needing a ride to the airport, you simply couldn't do it.

San Francisco was about as bad. Locals realized ( eventually ) that the only way to get a taxi was to head to one of the major hotels and present yourself as a guest to the doorman. If you didn't live within walking distance of a downtown hotel, you weren't ever going to get a taxi. Dispatchers ( there were only two real companies, Veterans and Luxor ) would simply refuse to service non-business addresses, and if you asked a bar or restaurant to call on behalf, they would simply reject outright half the time.

When I read that people were "made uncomfortable by a comment", I agree the system could and should be better, but what happened in the bay area is we moved from an entirely non-functional system where taxi rides simply can't be had, to a system with some problems but people can get rides. The story above about getting rides and the complaints about being dropped off on the wrong side, um, yeah.

I would say about 10% of the rides I take by Lyft are less than optimal. I wish the app allowed me to select preferences: fast driving over chit-chat, don't bother with my luggage I got it, drop me off somewhere close instead of being precise, because we all have different opinions.

I've had my fair share of bad rides, one where a guy was nodding off and I thought we were going to die, a couple where the "meter" was turned on early or off late. The most recent ride I took wasn't great, the guy kept calling me and his location didn't budge for 5 minutes --- I don't answer anymore, they're trying to figure out where you're going and if they don't like it they cancel the ride. That particular guy picked me up from the wrong bay at the airport ("oh, my app didn't show me", yeah right ) as well, but drove me home quickly and correctly otherwise.

I had this same discussion with a driver in Munich last week, and I argued there are places where the old taxi system works great, and those places aren't at risk for replacement. Germany is one of them, and there's no point in using Lyft there. Japan is another. Some of london is fine, the rest, you have to know the minicab number to call. I was in a London cab a few days ago, it was great --- and they're electric! Manhattan isn't bad, but you get some crazy apples.

You could invent a better system. It's pretty easy. The primary customer issue is hailing and tracking. If you built a hailing and tracking app, and the municipal law simply says "anyone offering rides can do it how they want, but they must ALSO offer rides through the municipal app" with a well defined REST API, and created a bidding-like system to allow prices to fluctuate, _and_ gave the municipality the ability to operate that app instead of a contractor agreement where a for-profit company owns the monopoly part of the transit infrastructure.... that works.

Unfortunately, that would require someone to build such an app and offer it to municipalities without the 1000x investor payoff that is required by investors. And it would require a municipality to operate a 7/24 web service, or contract it out, which we haven't seen municipalities be able to do.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possibility is that, as in the US [0], the London taxi industry has a lot of sway in politics. I'd guess that the taxi lobby had a lot to do with this decision. “Any London politician wants the black cabs on their side. They carry a political and electoral clout that is way beyond their numbers. There is nothing secret about that,” says Daniel Moylan, who was deputy chairman of TfL under Mr Johnson. [1] [0] https…

If it were true that this was all caused by black cab drivers pulling strings, Uber would have been thrown out of London years and years ago. Multiple mayors - including the current PM who was once Mayor of London - have explained that there needs to be an open culture. There are other private hire vehicle operator firms in London. Addison Lee is huge, and there are many, many "minicab" firms. They all comply with Tf…

Black cabs are in their own category due to The Knowledge and the general vetting process, but if what you say is true, why don't we see Addison Lee, minicabs, Kapten, Bolt and Ola getting the same level of scrutiny? Do we have any reason to believe that any of those have implemented policies and procedures that make them more fit and proper?

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#487
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You call it a violent takeover, but then go on to describe them as simply providing a better service than existing competiors. ??!? And this seems to just be the commonly accepted narrative among upper middle class progressives, so much so that nobody even bats an eye at the extraordinary contradiction. I feel like I'm living in an alternate reality lately. All tech is evil, that's just a fact, but it has improved ou…

First, as someone who strives for balance, I can't sit idle when you say "All tech is evil". That is just not true. We are all tech. all of us here. Very few people on this planet are "evil". However, many actions are perceived as evil by some and good by others. Google is not evil - they might do some things wrong, or badly but I don't believe they are inherently "evil". Neither is Uber or Facebook or any other tech…

I'm not claiming all tech is evil, just pointing out that I see this more and more as just being the accepted viewpoint these days. I also find it a pretty absurd claim, that's what I'm saying.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#488
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it's indeed so hard to find a good Uber driver, you'd expect them to be driven out of the market by customers themselves. I doubt that there are many Uber drivers that do it long term. Eventually at some point they have to realize that they're making peanuts (if not operating at a loss) after they factor in routine AND long-term maintenance costs of their vehicle. Or they simply get 'real' jobs and were using Ube…

To be honest I’d feel pretty shitty about leaving a bad review for a driver. It would feel like leaving a bad review for your DHL guy: unless they are downright wreckless, I see them as poor souls in bad jobs, that try to squeeze them out. It is human to not do a shit job perfectly all the time and I won’t make their day any shitier, just because they hurt my sensitive soul by not treating me like a member of the roy…

I give non-fives for cheating ( extending pickup or dropoff ), serious safety issues ( falling asleep and drifting out of lane ), and impersonating ( a different person than registered to drive ). The platform should be able to detect the first cheating problem, the other two are much harder and should have customer input.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#489
post #198

I'm not a fan of companies like Uber or AirBnB who attempt a violent takeover of a market. However, as a consumer who needs to get from A to B, or stay at some random city, I find those services invaluable. The black cabs in London are expensive, never around when you need them, and until recently might have refused card payments (now they just seem unhappy about it). At the very least I was hoping Uber would make th…

Yep. I'm always amazed at how quickly people crap on Uber. In hindsight it's not a particularly revolutionary service. But does everyone remember how much the Taxi system sucked?

I think having a system that prevents drivers from pretending they can't take credit cards, and automates the process of picking people up is extremely valuable. But I wish the capital subsidy would go away so that the market could become more rational and sustainable. And the last few times I've taken an Uber or a Lyft (to/from picking up my car for repairs) the driver has...not kept a hand on the wheel at all times. So, I'm all for regulation, but the app(s) themselves are a kind of regulation that was sorely needed.

Re: Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

#490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a questionable dichotomy considering there's ample research showing Uber is cannibalizing public transit and regulations on Taxis have historically been put in place for a variety of reasons that one should at least consider. Nobody denies that people like Uber for reasons but what does it even mean for a Taxi system to suck when compared to a super exploitative, unregulated enterprise such as this? As a drive…

According to what I witness in the current comments, a first step for taxis would be to mandate a working credit card machine, under penalties. However, it seems so many many taxis were frauding their taxes, that it became cultural and enforced. Which means taxis, which are already known as the top thief job in the world, also steal the citizen on a third level after the ride itself and after choosing the night rate…

Taxes aren't theft. Taxes is when we as a society pool together resources to invest into the projects we as a society agreed to implement by means of the democratic process. If you don't like it you can organize and pick different projects or fewer of them or create a system that doesn't have taxes. Taxi drivers have nothing to do with it.
Post reply on HN