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Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

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Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#481

Post by crististm »

reificator wrote: post #415
Chirael wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We’ve never needed it before, so why do we need it now?” (actual argument against it at my current workplace)

My response: You've never looked at a piece of code that you wanted to see the history of? You've never needed to revert a single change a few hours/days/weeks later? You've never needed to track down the person who wrote a piece of code in order to ask them for clarification? You've never needed to see the original change reason for a line of code that is doing some weird, specific thing that seems out of place? You…

I've got these responses on a similar question: "we don't need to see the commit logs so who cares about them or the history being pretty and clear? Nobody is looking at the history!"!!

The question was "Let's submit pull requests as a clean job not as a homework draft. Why don't we allow push force on work branches so that we can squash fixup commits after review?"

Blows my mind that those are senior developers that are otherwise seemingly competent at what they do. There is some pinch of job security there though.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#482

Post by rovr138 »

hacknat wrote: post #252
bloopernova wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that HIPAA violations can land you in jail, right? Run. Don't walk. Vacate immediately. Leave. I'm finding myself hoping that this is a fake, because I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone at all.

You won’t go to jail if you do nothing wrong, but legal fees. Ugh, yeah, you’ll be in court as a witness and possibly defendant if you don’t leave ASAP.

Or if they have a better lawyer than yours.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#483

Post by bot1 »

d--b wrote: post #458
dav1app wrote: post #403

On my last job, a new manager called me for a meeting on Friday 4PM. I spent the whole month on an extremely stressful project. The meeting was about an app that integrates credit card payments, billets and bank account on a terminal that is going to be available to the general public. The deadline? 11PM of the same day. Final version. From 0 to 100% in 6 hours. I said that it was impossible. He said that I was incap…

Next time this happens to you, write down minutes of the meeting and send the doc to the guy asking to confirm that this is what they ask. When they fire you on Monday, sue.

Is this actually possible?

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#484

Post by megablast »

bot1 wrote: post #483
d--b wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time this happens to you, write down minutes of the meeting and send the doc to the guy asking to confirm that this is what they ask. When they fire you on Monday, sue.

Is this actually possible?

Yes, sending an email is very easy these days.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#485

Post by s3nnyy »

Most people leave their bosses and not their jobs. The inverse is also true. My last job as a programmer was not so great but I stayed there for many years because my boss was quite great and supportive.

Now, I run a tech recruitment consultancy and if programmers come to me about changing jobs, in most cases the reason is the boss.

Most programmers invest a lot of time in coding and related activities but neglect most other aspects of their career. This Ask HN is a proof of this. (Shameless plug: I am writing a guide on how to be more efficient in the workplace and get better compensated, pre-order "Coderfit: Make more money as a programmer" here: https://gumroad.com/l/cdrft)

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#487

Post by tathatsnice »

honkycat wrote: post #431

I hate all of my jobs. Computer programming just doesn't seem worth it for 100-120k. I could work an easier job for a better money/bullshit ratio. My therapist is concerned. So am I. What if I don't fit in anywhere? I'm extremely sensitive with a high EQ, am an INTP. People really like me, and I make fast friends and can run a room extremely effectively. I've always been "the funny guy." I'm absurdly driven A-type an…

Please give me a way to contact you. I’m roughly in the same position you are.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#488

Post by wastedhours »

virgilp wrote: post #440
halfer53 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reason I hate about PIP( performance improvement program). They set ridiculous goals for you in very short amount of time that nobody can possibly complete, then fire you on grounds of incompetence. A friend of mine who works in Facebook told me that an employee committed suicide due to the pressure of PIP. I suspect that guy was put into PIP due to poor rating (meet most), then was given a ridicul…

It's a sad story; but PIP is really the pink slip; you take it as an advance notice that you're going to be fired, and start looking for jobs. I've heard stories of people completing PIP programs successfully, but quite honestly, I don't get it. Once you got to that point, you're not a good fit to the team and/or they don't appreciate you. Makes no sense to stay. I could understand staying with the company & switchin…

One of the benefits of completing a PIP might also be signing off an internal transfer to a team with better fit. There could be times where it's worth going through it to get something better - as long as you're quite far detached from the previous team.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#489

Post by bartread »

guitarbill wrote: post #448
tallanvor wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Facebook, but I know that in some companies, it really is possible for individual contributers to successfully complete a PIP. I've known at least 3 coworkers at my workplace who have been put on PIPs. They were given realistic expectations that didn't require them to work 50+ hours per week, and they completed the plans successfully. Of course, a manager who's put on a plan is generally gone in a f…

that just seems weird though. for it to get to the point of a PIP being necessary, a lot has had to gone wrong until then. feels like it's a blunt instrument, used when usual communication has almost broken down. are expectations not normally discussed more informally in regular 1:1s already? i do know people who have successfully completed PIPs and stayed. but every person who's taken the PIP as a signal to look for…

> but even if the PIP itself is reasonable, being PIP'd is not. it's a symptom of an underlying issue of poor management and should be interpreted as such.

That's a very broad statement but, whilst the sentiment is no doubt well-intentioned, it's also misguided.

Sometimes no matter how much feedback you give, how directly you express it, or how many ways you say the same thing in your weekly 1:1s it just doesn't get through. Occasionally people don't get it. Occasionally they don't want to hear it. Whatever the reason, you're not seeing the results you need, and whilst performance issues are often a result of some mitigating circumstance (divorce, bereavement, illness, and many others), sometimes they're not.

At that point a PIP may be entirely reasonable, whether it looks that way to the employee or not. This is especially the case if the employee's behaviour, performance, and/or attitude is having a detrimental effect on the rest of their team. Unfortunately, it often is.

Contrary to what you've said, a strong indicator of poor management is a failure to effectively manage performance, and to develop and maintain high performing teams.

Managers are held to account on their effectiveness in delivering against company goals. Effective managers sometimes have to work with an employee to correct performance issues. Sometimes the needed improvement doesn't occur. As cold-blooded as it sounds, this will probably lead to that employee being shown the door.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that every manager who uses PIPs is automatically right or some kind of enlightenened management genius. Like any tool, they can be used ineffectively or inappropriately. But if they're never used at all that's as big a red flag as if they're used too much.

Re: Ask HN: Who Wants to Be Fired?

#490

Post by bontaq »

Waterluvian wrote: post #72

I don't want to be fired. I absolutely love my job and the people I work with. But I can just smell that we are about to hit a sticking point with how I don't do on call (it was never mentioned in the interviews or part of my contract) and I don't respond to work after 5pm. If it does come to that sticking point I'm trying to figure out how to be the most assertive and diplomatic. I.e. How do I convey that I badly wa…

It will put you in an odd land of "special guy" if you refuse to do on call.

I've never seen or heard of on call mentioned as part of a hiring contract, but maybe others have. It's expected, if you built or helped build something, that you will be on call at some point. It's absurd to me you would avoid it, but maybe you're special.

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