Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#481

Post by adamc » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #469

mozumder wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not enough for government to sit back and assume tax dollars are going to cover economic growth. Government needs to be active in participating in growth, and that includes understanding what businesses need from their business plans and assisting them in becoming successful - from startups to large businesses. Jobs are the goal for this competition. They're the prize. Be thankful that governments are participat…

I would really like to know why this is getting downvoted... The reasoning here is sound - jobs create economic growth. These governments are forgoing a portion of the tax income that currently does not exist but would be gained by Amazon's arrival in exchange for getting Amazon to come in the first place . This is not an Olympic Games or a sports stadium that benefits very few individuals economically. This is a pro…

I didn't downvote it, but you omit an import issue: Amazon coming will also increase expenses for the city -- police, fire protection, sewers, etc. Tax revenue exists to pay for these things. It is not unreasonable to worry about whether the net effect of giving big tax breaks and bringing in a company like Amazon will be negative.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#482

Post by nyokodo » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

Unless Amazon is going to be paying $0 in tax or will be given tax credits in excess of any tax it will pay, neither of which I gather is the case, then how would this fail to deliver a net increase in tax revenue for the city? The 1000s of employees are not getting any tax breaks either so that'd also have to factor into the calculation. I don't think cities are acting against their own self interest in these negotiations.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#483

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

MrFoof wrote: post #453

ghaff wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah right. I don't live in the city so I hadn't really kept up with developments after the bid for a casino location there was rejected a few years ago. Presumably, if that was a legitimate bid at least someone thought you could move a lot of people in and out of the area. Traffic still isn't great around there but, yeah, you're right on the Blue Line (which is... OK I guess) and you're practically next door to the ai…

> I hadn't really kept up with developments after the bid for a casino location there was rejected a few years ago That casino is actually now under active construction, and has been for about a year (if not longer). Though it's much further south in Everett.

Yeah, I meant the Suffolk Downs location bid, not the casino project overall. (Unfortunately.)

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#484

Post by ForrestN » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:40 PM UTC

lolsal wrote: post #274

biohax2015 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are probably a minority. There is rampant racism in these states and many don’t even try to hide their discrimination.

> rampant: flourishing or spreading unchecked. I have lived in the south for 33 years (in particular, one of these states mentioned) - if you think that racism is flourishing or spreading unchecked you are misinformed. It exists, but it's dying. Please stop spreading hyperbole like this.

I think sometimes there's a tendency to conflate overt racism, like someone verbally abusing you using racial epithets, with racism in general. Racism still exists everywhere in the United States, but having grown up in the south, and based on the experiences of my spouse, who also grew up in the south, I can say quite confidently that "rampant" is no hyperbole.

If you are visibly different, especially in a way that tends to be politicized, people will stare at you. They will treat you differently when you're a customer of their business. You will know that you can expect far less comfort from the police, and that you have to watch your back in case you happen to run into someone dangerous. This article helps to demonstrate experiences like ours:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/opinion/sunday/the-risks-...

You can feel unsafe without actually being attacked. And you can actually see people, in real time, choose to send you signals that you are unsafe. When someone is staring at you in a gas station, this is often their intention. You know that they know that you know that you are unwelcome.

Imagine any of these subtler experiences of racism or homophobia or transphobia, but applied over and over again, and the composite feeling of discomfort that arises. Again, trust isn't about the outlier cases. It's about how you feel, all the time. When we are traveling in the south, even as people born there, we can't completely relax until we're alone, in a hotel room or on an empty road.

We don't think about it all the time, but the anxiety is always there. And it's not just frightening, it's sad. It's depressing to be reminded that you don't have the same freedoms and privileges that other people have. It's suffocating.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#485

Post by astrodust » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:40 PM UTC

tfolbrecht wrote: post #77

I think Miami would be good strategically for Amazons future warm-water port. Joking aside, What sort of hoops do they expect these city and state governments jump through?

Given how southern Florida is at risk of going under-water, this is a strange thing to see on the list.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#486

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:41 PM UTC

dx034 wrote: post #160

chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

Denver appears to be the current favourite (also chosen by the NYT as the winner) but doesn't have any flights to Asia except for Tokyo[1]. But I guess being sufficiently connected within the US is enough, not sure how many flights to China they need. [1] https://www.flightera.net/airport/Denver/KDEN

If Amazon goes there, the flights will follow.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#487

Post by jpatokal » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

otoburb wrote: post #460

gumby wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas.

>> My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas. But non-Canadian staff still need to obtain Canadian visas. I'm not sure how much easier (or not) that process is compared to the TN or H1B lottery.

Way easier. Canada's points system is a shining beacon of transparency in comparison to the US.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#488

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

jacek wrote: post #448

femto113 wrote: post #386

My money is on one of Nashville, Indianapolis or Columbus with Pittsburgh as a dark horse. Amazon is going to be looking to build a major campus (say 5-10 big buildings) right in the center of town (as they've done here in Seattle) and that's just not feasible in expensive cities like LA, Boston, NYC, Chicago or DC. Denver is too far west, Miami, Atlanta and Raleigh too far southeast. Newark and Philadelphia don't ha…

Nashville does not stand a chance. It is growing rapidly, but the infrastructure is not keeping up. It is a car-centric city with almost nonexistent public transportation. As a result there is a citywide gridlock twice a day during rush hours. And not a single alternative. "It's a village that grew too big" is what my SO says about Nashville.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#489

Post by dhimes » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

williamsmj wrote: post #368

drumttocs8 wrote: post #249

Amazon would have the greatest impact in Atlanta. You could argue that Atlanta is the economic, cultural, and geographical center of the Southeastern United States. It has the busiest airport in the world and is a major rail hub. There are already dozens of major corporations headquaratered in Atlanta. There is no shortage of talent, with a top-5 engineering school in Georgia Tech. Yet there are things missing which…

Atlanta, Raleigh and Dallas are all in states whose statewide electorate makes them a governor's veto away from passing "religious freedom" laws that would make hiring difficult. Maybe it would be good for Atlanta, but I don't think Amazon would risk it.

I thought "religious freedom" laws made it so the employer could legally refuse to hire, say, homosexuals. That probably won't pose a risk to Amazon, the hiring company.

Are you thinking the second order effects would come into play, like spouses not being able to find work? Or am I wrong about the definition of rf laws?

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#490

Post by astrodust » Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 8:42 PM UTC

brohoolio wrote: post #248

asciimo wrote: post #238

I'm disappointed that Detroit isn't on the list. My money is on Nashville or Denver. Hm... I wonder if how hard it would be to set up a decentralized blockchain pool to wager on the winner...

The Metro-Detroit area voted down a public transit system a year or two ago. Public transit was one of the requirements that Amazon laid out.

A more progressive Amazon would build public transit. The robber-baron companies used to wholesale reshape society to fit their vision. It's almost disappointing Amazon doesn't try.