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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

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Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#481

Post by mlsarecmg »

philipodonnell wrote: post #430
mlsarecmg wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many things going forward will happen in reacts petri dish. Lots of ideas seeking to get consensus like the evolution of styles, animations, native performance, async scheduler, easy-to-create native renderers. Vue is nice and all, but it's rather complacent, catering to old Angular-like roots and web artefacts. If you believed the hype then Vue was supposed to be the be-all-end-all of frameworks, the reality of cour…

The point has been made before that npm downloads are a poor measure of framework popularity because the architecture of the framework and the typical distribution channels can skew the number of npm pulls in a way unrelated to the number of projects utilizing it.

These numbers track actual, daily usage in production environments. You can't explain these numbers away, not if they're both competing in the same field. Both are distributed in the same way (npm, unpkg, various cdns), both websites show you how, both do not need build tools to function, both are better off with build tools. It would be pretty disingenuous to claim suddenly the only actual numbers we have are skewed.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#482

Post by SXX »

coldtea wrote: post #476
SXX wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say about what available on GitHub today, but up until year ago all source code was included and they only sold precompiled binaries and support. Also I doubt they can really change anything about that because Synergy never required CLA and it's under GPLv2. I pretty sure their "core" naming is just another way to promote usage of paid version, but you can still compile it yourself and easily remove all li…

Isn't that more proof that it doesn't work well though? Why would they do all these changes if the previous model worked well for making them money?

Previous model was usual open source community-driven project with donations and it's obviously didn't worked, but Synergy was developed by different team at different times and looks like they find what works for them. It's tarted 3 years ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2fydpm/synergy_gpl_i...

Of course it's not shiny VC funded company with 10000% growth, but I guess it's profitable business. Though it's not that much different from what Red Hat doing by selling support even if it's on small scale.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#483

Post by rhapsodic »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #380
LibertyBeta wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would stay with Vue. While the react world is bugger it's mostly made up of competing solutions instead of distinct tasks. That said, this healthy Vue/Angular/React competition has been great for us devs.

I agree that competition is generally good, but I hate choices so much. I don't even care if Vue is 10 times better than React, I've just spent the last year diving into React and React Native. I've finished 3 big projects and now I'm feeling more confident. And now I get the feeling that I have to throw out a whole bunch of experience and switch to the next big thing. I think I'm going to dig in my heels this time.…

If you don't mind sharing, what problem did you have before that was solved by adopting React? (I'm not referring to React Native. It's obvious to me what problem that solves.)

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#484

Post by nathan_f77 »

bpicolo wrote: post #416
nathan_f77 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that competition is generally good, but I hate choices so much. I don't even care if Vue is 10 times better than React, I've just spent the last year diving into React and React Native. I've finished 3 big projects and now I'm feeling more confident. And now I get the feeling that I have to throw out a whole bunch of experience and switch to the next big thing. I think I'm going to dig in my heels this time.…

> over a year of headaches and frustration Seems like an argument against the react ecosystem

Don't get me wrong, it was the good kind of struggle where you grow and push yourself. Like going to the gym.

It was the same as any other programming language, framework, or ecosystem. Exactly the same as my experience with Ruby on Rails when I first started doing web development.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#485

Post by nathan_f77 »

rhapsodic wrote: post #483
nathan_f77 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that competition is generally good, but I hate choices so much. I don't even care if Vue is 10 times better than React, I've just spent the last year diving into React and React Native. I've finished 3 big projects and now I'm feeling more confident. And now I get the feeling that I have to throw out a whole bunch of experience and switch to the next big thing. I think I'm going to dig in my heels this time.…

If you don't mind sharing, what problem did you have before that was solved by adopting React? (I'm not referring to React Native. It's obvious to me what problem that solves.)

The main thing is having the state flow top-down through your app, so you never have to worry about manually keeping things in sync in the UI. Redux and redux saga have really taught me a lot about programming, and then RxJS and redux-observable completely blew my mind.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#486

Post by blktiger »

spenczar5 wrote: post #144
kelnos wrote: post #71

So... I guess I still don't understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents. I get that there's legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren't a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption. Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file pat…

The current state of things is that patents are stockpiled as deterrents, kind of like nuclear weapons. All of the big companies know that if they sued one another over some patent claim, the other side would retaliate, and it would be a big mess with no real winners. Facebook's patent clause disarms all their opponents, but leaves them free to attack. It's actually a wildly aggressive, offensive weapon, surprisingly…

It's not just big companies necessarily either. Say you are a small startup working on something really innovative and you have a patent on part of your work. Facebook decides to build something similar, violating your patents in the process, and they are going to put you out of business. If one of your core technologies is react under the BSD + Patents license, then you are screwed. You can't sue to save your business because even if you do you have to immediately recall all of your software and replace React.

Sure, not everyone is in that situation. Facebook is big enough though that if you have any patents you have to be _very_ careful about that license.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#487

Post by rhapsodic »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #485
rhapsodic wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind sharing, what problem did you have before that was solved by adopting React? (I'm not referring to React Native. It's obvious to me what problem that solves.)

The main thing is having the state flow top-down through your app, so you never have to worry about manually keeping things in sync in the UI. Redux and redux saga have really taught me a lot about programming, and then RxJS and redux-observable completely blew my mind.

I've never found manually keeping things in sync with the UI to be overly burdensome. I guess I've just been lucky.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#488

Post by uiri »

alecco wrote: post #429
cies wrote: post #140

So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license. I count: * ReasonML - https://github.com/facebook/reason/blob/master/PATENTS.txt * GraphQL - https://github.com/graphql/graphql-js/blob/master/PATENTS * react-native - https://github.com/facebook/react-native/blob/master/PATENTS * PlanOut - https://github.com/facebook/planout/blob/master/PATENTS * Flow - https://github.com/facebook/flow/blob/master/PATENTS * Haxl…

I'm astounded how everyone things MIT == Apache2. MIT doesn't protect you from patent litigation. This is a backwards move. Facebook is very good at PR painting this as a win for users. See http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Patent_clauses_in_software_licences... an explanation https://opensource.stackexchange.com/a/1890

The MIT license does not explicitly mention patents. However, depending on the lawyer, an argument could be made that it contains an implicit patent license. I think that Facebook would have an uphill battle arguing that their relicensing didn't include patents after this kerfuffle.

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#489

Post by fasquoika »

rmc wrote: post #426
Bahamut wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a lawyer? If not, you would be doing a disservice to anyone curious about the topic. My own company's lawyers consider the GPLv3 toxic and not allowed at all for company use in any software we create - that's enough for me.

> My own company's lawyers consider the GPLv3 toxic and not allowed at all for company use in any software we create - that's enough for me. Isn't that often because the GPL would require you to release your source code? Which is different from possible patent problems? I can understand why companies don't want to release their source code, but at least it's clear ("release your code and you can't be sued"), right?

IIRC the GPL actually has an explicit patent grant

Re: Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

#490

Post by orf »

kahnpro wrote: post #365
marksomnian wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were close to arriving but they backtracked, all 25% of them. I'd call that an exodus before you even arrive.

You can't die if you were never alive to begin with

And yet a project can die before it's born
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