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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#481

Post by orless »

mikeash wrote: post #19
orless wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many people won't mind paying a higher price for a longer-lasting product. But there's just no way to know it will really be longer-lasting.

If a manufacturer is confident that their product will last, they can convey this to the buyer by providing a really good warranty.

You can purchase an additional warranty for decent money. Handling repairs is still a huge mess and burden - even if you're not paying for them. I read a couple of "four weeks without refrigerator" horror stories. That they happend on the warranty time did not make them any better.

I don't want a good warranty, I want a well working equipment.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#482

Post by xg15 »

mixedbit wrote: post #444
foobarian wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with the current market is that it's next to impossible to determine the quality of a machine. I would gladly pay $3000 for a washer if I could somehow tell that it will be better built, with higher quality metals, inner parts, and overall longer lasting. But it seems that the extra money these days just buys more flashy bells and whistles that just increase the chance of failure. Sadly my strategy has bee…

The Market for Lemons rule is that if consumers are unable to recognize quality and crap products while buying, after some time all the products on the market are crap.

Partially this, plus the monopoly position the post described: Three companies "won" the market and have no pressure to produce anything else then lemons anymore. And since a bad dishwasher is still better than no dishwasher, consumers will buy them even if they know it's crap as long as there is no alternative.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#483

Post by wjnc »

My Whirlpool dryer and washing machine lasted 10 and 12 years respectively. Few fixes in the last few years, but still in pretty strong condition. What made me switch was the realisation that just the energy savings going from energy label A to A+++ (that's a EU-label) would make them pay themselves back in about 4 years. So Total Cost of Ownership is what matters, not service duration.

I totally agree that 'cradle to cradle' shouldn't just be some hipster word. In the EU we pay to have any appliance recycled. Hopefully that is done ambitiously.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#484

Post by amelius »

alkonaut wrote: post #476

Here is a guess: the fridge that lasted 50 years cost a months salary, while the fridge that lasts 10 years costs 1/5 a months salary. So you get exactly what you pay for, and you pay exactly as much for "having a fridge" today as you did when they lasted 50 years. But here is the kicker: a) People don't want to pay big money for something they don't know will last 50 years,. b) People want new things. While it's con…

Perhaps it would be better if people buy refrigeration as a service. Then the service provider can worry about such things as lifetime, maintenance, replacement, and selling old refrigerators.

And there would be no incentive for "planned obsolescence".

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#485

Post by robin_reala »

redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

How could Trump do anything about that?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#486

Post by wycx »

NDizzle wrote: post #238
snowwrestler wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

My LG front loader has a small hose behind a panel on the lower front where the drain pump filter is. When I am finished washing I take the plug out of the hose, drain all the water, then remove the drain pump filter and leave the door open until I next need to use the washer. Otherwise, there would be ~500 mL stagnant water in the plumbing of the washer, keeping the humidity inside the washer comfortable for mold.

Also, use warm water and half the suggested amount of washing powder.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#487

Post by ff10 »

redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

Miele, Neff, Liebherr, this is my go to when I plan to keep stuff for a decade or more. There's even a few more smaller high end brands from Germany. I bought a used Miele Toploader from the 90s. Miele says new ones will be good for about 20 years. So I probably have some more years with that one. Plus timeless, simple design, exceptional quality and very good cleaning performance. Note that I live in Germany. When I looked at Miele vacuum prices in a Macy's in California I had to choke a little.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#488

Post by FrankyHollywood »

amelius wrote: post #479
FrankyHollywood wrote: post #478

A while ago I read the biography of Anton Philips. He described a board meeting where they decided to make the lifetime of a light bulb 1000 hours instead of 5000. So they actually decided to make their product less good, only to get more (short term?) profit. (some) people are never satisfied, always want more more more...

Wouldn't the free market solve this automatically?

well, Philips still is a billion dollar company today :)

I guess it depends on the market, if 'longest lasting bulbs' are a selling point, you lose the race. However, if all other manifactures like your business model they will follow.

Marketing is also important. Companies with best advertising often sell more than companies with the best products.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#489

Post by kerouanton »

redsummer wrote: post #480

A good rule is just to buy Miele or high-end Bosch. Make sure it's made in Germany and sold in the German market. They have higher standards. I don't know if this is true for ovens, but with other appliances it's a good rule to follow. I can see an opening for Trump here. If he wants the US to be known for high quality, long-lasting products, he could differentiate US products from cheap and crappy Far East stuff. Th…

I see two objections here.

First, it's often more expensive than people can afford. Most relatives I know are "stuck" buying low-grade appliances/furniture just because they can't afford more, and they know they will have to replace it in 4-5 years.

Second: fashion/mode/trend. I was surprised to see many people throwing functional appliances, computers and even furniture just because it was outdated, not trending. such as "My old cell phone still works but I'd pass for a retarded if I don't show up my latest iPhone". Same for furniture, curtains, chairs and tables that are still good, but people often change because they want to renew the appearance in their homes. Do many of you still use good'old wooden furniture of your grand-parents in your home?

So, I'm not convinced the "50 years" model would be ideal for everything. Because human nature.

A 10 years model would be great, imho.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#490

Post by emodendroket »

orless wrote: post #481
mikeash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a manufacturer is confident that their product will last, they can convey this to the buyer by providing a really good warranty.

You can purchase an additional warranty for decent money. Handling repairs is still a huge mess and burden - even if you're not paying for them. I read a couple of "four weeks without refrigerator" horror stories. That they happend on the warranty time did not make them any better. I don't want a good warranty, I want a well working equipment.

Those are pretty much worthless. They usually exclude all the most common reasons the thing would break.
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