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Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#481

Post by tomlock »

benchaney wrote: post #476
tomlock wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog post it was posted on? How posting it here would make people feel?

"The blog post it was posted on?" Unless what you mean is that you don't want any comments on that blog post, this is actually a criticism of content. "How posting it here would make people feel?" Also content.

So you don't think the name or time is content, but you do think where the comment is, is content? Do you feel like if you make a comment in one situation, and then make the exact same comment in another situation, that the content of the comment has changed? Keep in mind that the time or name used on the comment may have changed - you've ruled those out.

Your line of argument earlier was that you thought I was against complaints about pitchforking. Have you abandoned that line of reasoning? I personally don't think the content of most arguments against pitchforking is objectionable.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#483

Post by brudgers »

cbtacy wrote: post #385
brudgers wrote: post #352

As I commented last night[1], the New York Times has cast Fowler's experience as a he-said-she-said story. Unfortunately I was not pessimistic enough: 1. The New York Times spiked the most damning part of Fowler's story: that HR was actively involved in supporting the behavior. 2. It down plays Fowler's specific experience as typical for the industry and marginalizes it by bringing Pao's story into Fowler's narrative…

So profoundly disappointed in not just the NY Times but all the media coverage. The story is not that Travis has ordered an investigation - it's that Uber is a cesspool. And for those who are saying "do you have evidence" - please... Like we ALL don't know what working at Uber is like. Cmon man.

The main stream media caters its reporting to maintain access. Alternative media tends to do likewise. A reporter whose beat is Silicon Valley tech companies has to maintain access to those companies so that they can get an email from the CEO when the story breaks. If the reporter spent significant time muck raking the employment practices of the tech industry, the reporter would be frozen out. The Anti-Trust collusion case wasn't based on a story that some reporter broke or news outlet broke.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#484

Post by abandonliberty »

xenadu02 wrote: post #416
abandonliberty wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is popular in the USA right now to silence rational, evidence based discussions. Now more than ever it is of vital importance that we stick to values of relying on open dialogue, reason, and facts. If these values only apply when they are convenient and comfortable for you then they aren't your values, but instead a rhetorical tool you abuse. As a community of above-average intelligence and reason, I am disappoint…

Here's the thing: If you had ever taken even a few minutes to sit down with women who work in our industry and asked them if anything like this has ever happened to them you would learn it is extremely common. You would also learn that women rarely get the benefit of the doubt in these situations and are often punished or eventually forced out of the company. Women don't talk about it because jerks immediately start…

You seem very reasonable.

Please try your own thought experiment: would requests for evidence in your scenario get silenced by assumptions and accusations of bad faith and sexism?

These are some of the same tools used by dictators, despots, and criminals to chill rational discourse.

Your thought experiment is lacking a critical component: the hearsay accusation of a criminal act. You've unwittingly created a straw man argument.

This is a risk when you don't engage with the world in a rational evidence-driven format. You mislead even yourself.

Try this thought experiment: Assume I'm a very supportive professional married to a woman who works in technology, intimately familiar with the pressures and difficulties that come with that. You can explore my comment history if you like.

Seriously re-read what you've written and consider it from my perspective. What does it say about you, your prejudices, values, beliefs, and open mind? What is the impact if everyone behaves the same way?

Can you see why I'm concerned that ycombinator contributors behave this way?

Or: view it from the perspective of a misogynist that you seek to shame and silence. Few of them will be converted through bullying. You're trying to stop terrorism by bombing Iraq. Attacking the wrong people for the wrong reasons while sacrificing your values quickly destroys your reputation, highlights your hypocrisy, and creates new opponents.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your behavior here doesn't match how you see yourself or how you want to be. That you have a love of democracy, freedom, and the pillars that support them. We desperately need people like that, and we have no shortage of ignorant bigots.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#485

Post by meerita »

CydeWeys wrote: post #341
meerita wrote: post #287

After reading the entire blog post, and also reading that the CEO is concerned, I want heads rolling. Specially those who were involved from HR, managers. I think it will centrate the people on doing their job, not doing anything aside from this. What a bad image UBER is getting for toxic "high performers".

I'm worried that the head of HR will be fired as a scapegoat or something, when they were never empowered to truly deal with issues like this in the first place, and that such policy will continue. If the company culture is toxic to begin with, and "high performers" are retained at all cost, firing one head of HR makes no difference if, afterwards, HR is still not going to be empowered with truly addressing these iss…

The head of HR wasn't reported, that's what I believe it happen. That's why now it is on duty. I think this has happen in middleground, not the highest spheres. Well, the CTO is involved, and as manager, he had to work on that matter from day 1. The CTO will not be kicked, of course, but it tells you how much the company will do with this.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#486

Post by mcguire »

jacquesm wrote: post #392
mcguire wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither the NYT nor Reuters articles mention the other 90% of the alleged activities: http://bit.ly/2kCE416

Why post a bitly link? Real link: https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...

That's the link in the article.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#487

Post by [deleted] »

mistercow wrote: post #464
qntty wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you read a legal brief for fun? "Scrutinizing evidence" here is a technical task done by experts.

You are defining evidence as "legal evidence", and you're the only one using that definition here.

[deleted]

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#488

Post by logicallee »

jimmywanger wrote: post #478
logicallee wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Mike has responded to me by email. I'm keeping the comment below but as long as the piece is updated over time I'm probably fine with it. Don't read too much into my critique below. ------ Original version of this comment: How do you explain the fact that Mike didn't quote the original instance of harrassment, nor summarize it in his own words, turning away from the highly interesting quote, "On my first offici…

All you're making are editorial decisions at this point, talking about what should and should not be in the article. As pointed out by many others, right now this is definitely a case of he said/she said. An alternate reading is that he didn't want to get into the details, as it would derail the story to make people read all the unsubstantiated verbiage. The statements "a lengthy post on her personal blog" and "said.…

No, "she said she was sexually harrassed" is not true and accurate. She said her superior propositioned her, and that when she reported him to HR they said she could change to a different team, or stay on that team and likely get a negative review and that there was nothing they could do. (This was despite the fact that she was really qualified and considered that team the best fit for her and where she could add the most value.)

However, I do agree with you that my suggestions are editorial in nature, yes.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#489

Post by sudosteph »

just2n wrote: post #465
xenadu02 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: If you had ever taken even a few minutes to sit down with women who work in our industry and asked them if anything like this has ever happened to them you would learn it is extremely common. You would also learn that women rarely get the benefit of the doubt in these situations and are often punished or eventually forced out of the company. Women don't talk about it because jerks immediately start…

> Here's the thing: If you had ever taken even a few minutes to sit down with women who work in our industry and asked them if anything like this has ever happened to them you would learn it is extremely common. This type of argument is extremely dangerous. Not only isn't it true for many (I've done this), it's conflating claims with evidence. If one is being honest, it's clear that the vast majority of news outlets…

Dude, this isn't a court case. It's one woman sharing a story about how sexism in a male-dominated environment affected her career. Anyone can opine on it, especially people who have experienced similar issues firsthand and want to discuss the root cause of it and how to stop it(Is it a few bad apples? Is it endemic to tech/SV culture? Is it a problem equally in all fields dominated by a single sex?). If you don't think there's a pattern there worth discussing, that's your call, but it seems clear that a huge number of us do, and a blog post is plenty sufficient for discussing that.

I'm glad your women friends tell you things are all good and rosey, but the rest of us are going to keep talking about this sort of behavior until it stops happening.

Also, scare quotes around "rape" statistics? Ewww.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#490

Post by deminature »

sangnoir wrote: post #472
cdr wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you are a case in point; spez (Steve Huffman, CEO) actually made those decisions and used Pao as a fall-woman.

> And you are a case in point I wasn't aware that spez was co-CEO with ekjp... I thought he only became CEO afterwards. Even if the board/spez forced her to make all of the unpopular decisions (there were many), the buck still stopped with her as the CEO[1], fall-woman or not. Also, why did spez want Victoria gone? He made Ellen Pao fire her too, right? 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cbo4m/we_ap.…

Actually kn0thing/co-founder Alexis Ohanian fired Victoria, but Ellen Pao ended up taking the blame for that too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/3d2hv3/kn0t...

Note, I'm not affiliated with Pao, I just thought her treatment by the reddit community was extremely disappointing.

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