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My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

thecodist.com

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Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#481

Post by ChicagoDave »

I've been a programmer since 1985, so 31 years. In the last 10 years I've been more in the lead/architect role, but in relation to this article, still just a programmer. I too am good at delivering, so I make pretty good cake as a consultant in Chicago.

Even so, it's true you rarely have a voice in changing things. On the plus-side, you generally don't get involved in office politics as a consultant. On the minus-side, this leaves you with nearly zero power.

I've gone through cycles of looking for ways out and I found one outlet that may or may not pan out, but it keeps my skills fresh.

I'm a serial entrepreneur (currently without a success) that works on my own ideas with my own money working with people I like and respect. My first start-up was in ed-tech and although every (and I mean everyone) loved my idea, I couldn't get it off the ground.

My second is a work in progress, I have a partner, and our app should release this summer. It will be interesting to go through that process.

Even so, I still love coding and being around coders. I was at a design agency a couple of years ago and a young guy, early twenties, out of the blue said, "Dude, you're awesome."

I had no idea what he meant and then he added (I'm paraphrasing), "You've been writing code for 30 years and you still love it. I just started two years ago and I love it and I've always wondered if I could do it as a career...if I would still be passionate when I get old. You're living proof that I can. You're awesome dude."

The OP was kind of talking about money and stability and effecting change, but there are also responsibilities on that side of things some of us programmers just aren't cut out for...so I say be passionate programmer and be happy you have a marketable skill.

Without one or both, the world gets a lot darker.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#482

Post by angelbob »

wdr1 wrote: post #459

> I simply didn’t realize how little room you have to advance as just a programmer I think this is one thing that has changed dramatically (and for the better) in the last ~10 years. I started as a developer in the 90s. The only way to advance was to go into management. I was pretty conflicted, as I was promoted from developer to manager. Quit, went to be a developer at a new job, and got prompted to manager again. Q…

Companies know we want it, and have gotten better at talking the talk (e.g. technical career tracks.) But look into how that actually works. For most people it's much harder, if it happens at all.

I speak as a guy at the end of the technical track, on my second consecutive job of "look, you make as much as we'll pay just-a-programmer, even an architect, here."

Many managers are now convinced things are better. I never talk to anybody high-up on that track who thinks so. Of course, most companies don't have anybody high up on a technical career ladder, but are convinced it's going to be fixed any year here.

Fundamentally, as long as it's even 20% easier to get promoted as a manager, people are going to intentionally pick that track. In practice, it's usually 2x-5x easier to get promoted as a manager.

I don't think that's fixable. At some point, executives have to decide who to promote. Executives, like the rest of us, prefer people who have skills like theirs - I bias in favor of programming skills for the same reason.

But executive bias toward their own skills mean people managers get promoted.

I've never worked at Google. But I know a lot of Googlers. I don't think I'm wrong. Also, there's another comment from a Googler disagreeing with you in response to this very comment.

It's not a Google-specific problem. But it's a big one.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#483

Post by technocodes »

wdr1 wrote: post #459

> I simply didn’t realize how little room you have to advance as just a programmer I think this is one thing that has changed dramatically (and for the better) in the last ~10 years. I started as a developer in the 90s. The only way to advance was to go into management. I was pretty conflicted, as I was promoted from developer to manager. Quit, went to be a developer at a new job, and got prompted to manager again. Q…

Is this propaganda? Not to sound negative, but is what we are viewing here an example of influence on the internet?

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#484

Post by danielvinson »

Periodic wrote: post #478
wdr1 wrote: post #459

> I simply didn’t realize how little room you have to advance as just a programmer I think this is one thing that has changed dramatically (and for the better) in the last ~10 years. I started as a developer in the 90s. The only way to advance was to go into management. I was pretty conflicted, as I was promoted from developer to manager. Quit, went to be a developer at a new job, and got prompted to manager again. Q…

Perhaps you work in a different part of Google than I do, but I've been here for four years and I see many good engineers getting pushed into management roles to advance their careers. Their job title is still that of an engineer, but they end up with reports, schedules full of meetings and use Google Docs as their primary editor. It seems that the ability to have an impact while writing code is quite limited in the…

> I see many good engineers getting pushed into management roles to advance their careers.

A lot of people whom I see in this category are people who fall more under the "engineer" banner than the "developer" banner - they tend to look for hard problems to solve, and are still happy solving logistical and financial problems.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#486

Post by pabb »

hbt wrote: post #377
okyup wrote: post #140

I agree that programming is a dead end job. It's popular and relatively easy. It doesn't require any special skills. Anyone with an average IQ can learn it. There's low cost and barrier of entry to getting started. It's fun and addicting when you're a kid. Then you get trapped and it becomes monotonous. There's only so good you can get at programming. Beyond that, most of your time is spent on debugging trivial issue…

As everything is being digitized slowly, we truly are moving to an information economy. Programming is the ability to manipulate that information for a purpose. You can be a programmer and make money if you combine that ability with specialized domain knowledge . But the ability to program alone makes you interchangeable in the business. Just look at the hundreds of gigantic (5000+ employees) consulting firms selling…

Great comment. Echoes a lot of the sentiment I've been feeling since graduating college. Started out at a web startup where everyone was focused on learning the next new framework and applying clever language quirks and idioms, and heralding that knowledge as if it made them more valuable. And then applying it to a company whose product was stale and completely reproducible and non-innovative. I switched into embedded software after less than a year there and I've made a point to focus less on languages, or programming for the sake of programming, and more on learning hardware and Linux kernel internals because it's a domain toward which to apply the programming knowledge that, as you and GP pointed out, is relatively non-novel on its own.

I believe Carmack has a quote about how programming is just a mundane manner in which to solve more interesting underlying problems. I would imagine the world, or more specifically the economy, will eventually see it that way as well.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#487

Post by tomp »

karmelapple wrote: post #410
Bluestrike2 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very interesting dynamic. Humanistic psychology focuses extensively on ideas of locus of control (Rotter) and self-actualization (Maslow). The perspective has its shortcomings, but I think it manages to hit on a point that many of the others either miss or place little emphasis on. People in general tend to underestimate just how significant that can be. For example, I've always found the argument that certain…

Interesting point. The idea of a meritocracy is pretty ingrained into the tech world, and that means control over life is internal, not external. But tech is not a meritocracy. [1] [2] Accepting that you have less control over your life may change some of your outcomes, but I doubt it would completely crush one's spirit. I've accepted that I'll never flap my arms unaided and fly like a bird. I'm not depressed because…

> But tech is not a meritocracy.

Some people say it is, others say it isn't. Neither use a lot of data in their arguments.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#488

Post by tsmarsh »

donatj wrote: post #201
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my late forties and have been a professional developer for 25+ years. I agree with what you said in your comment, but this stood out: "You might be dead tomorrow; you might as well enjoy today." This is not a bad way to live, but as I get older I am increasingly aware that there will be a day when I'm dead tomorrow. And for that reason I'm increasingly less interested in spending time in the state where "time…

I'm about to turn 30 in just over a month. I got my first programming job at 20 and am seriously wondering where my twenties went? Honestly it terrifies me how quickly they went. All of my twenties went about as fast as tenth grade. I blame the time shift of programming. I hear about all the adventures my wife had before we met and just think "well I was busy programming". Since getting married in September I have sp…

I can't say I had exactly the same experience. My 20s seemed to drag, my 30s? My 30s are flying by. Between moving continents, establishing myself in a new market, getting married, buy a house, having kids. I feel like I've blinked and I'm in my mid 30s.

The days are long the years are short.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#489

Post by tsmarsh »

donatj wrote: post #201
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my late forties and have been a professional developer for 25+ years. I agree with what you said in your comment, but this stood out: "You might be dead tomorrow; you might as well enjoy today." This is not a bad way to live, but as I get older I am increasingly aware that there will be a day when I'm dead tomorrow. And for that reason I'm increasingly less interested in spending time in the state where "time…

I'm about to turn 30 in just over a month. I got my first programming job at 20 and am seriously wondering where my twenties went? Honestly it terrifies me how quickly they went. All of my twenties went about as fast as tenth grade. I blame the time shift of programming. I hear about all the adventures my wife had before we met and just think "well I was busy programming". Since getting married in September I have sp…

I can't say I had exactly the same experience. My 20s seemed to drag, my 30s? My 30s are flying by. Between moving continents, establishing myself in a new market, getting married, buy a house, having kids. I feel like I've blinked and I'm in my mid 30s.

The days are long the years are short.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#490

Post by carc »

angelbob wrote: post #482
wdr1 wrote: post #459

> I simply didn’t realize how little room you have to advance as just a programmer I think this is one thing that has changed dramatically (and for the better) in the last ~10 years. I started as a developer in the 90s. The only way to advance was to go into management. I was pretty conflicted, as I was promoted from developer to manager. Quit, went to be a developer at a new job, and got prompted to manager again. Q…

Companies know we want it, and have gotten better at talking the talk (e.g. technical career tracks.) But look into how that actually works. For most people it's much harder, if it happens at all. I speak as a guy at the end of the technical track, on my second consecutive job of "look, you make as much as we'll pay just-a-programmer, even an architect, here." Many managers are now convinced things are better. I neve…

"look, you make as much as we'll pay just-a-programmer, even an architect, here."

Sorry but this line is almost always complete BS. Anyone that I know who has heard this line, gone out and gotten a (much better) offer somewhere else, and the original company instantly matched. Like, without even having to consult anyone, their manager said they'd match. You can't trust this line.

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