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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#481
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

Tesla, Oculus Rift, gaming rigs, comic books. Dating too, I guess.

This. Get a Tesla! And travel...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#482
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the potential future earnings be sufficient to purchase a home in SF? That's comparable to what he or she could get in Austin?

It matters on when. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in the US for this exact reason. Its having a HUGE impact on the price of housing. What I bought in 2009 is now worth double (good for me, bad for new buyers). We have shit transportation infrastructure & the housing market is (for us) insane.

All this Austin talk...seriously, the tech scene in Texas has moved on to Dallas...the actual highest growth city in the U.S. Many people from Austin have already come here.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#483

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

You should come visit Dallas. The tech scene has blown up here, I'd say bigger than Austin now.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#484
post #213

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

> Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

Saving it (in an index fund rather than a bank) is an excellent thing to do with it. Keep living like a college student (or even a fair bit better than that), and save the rest, and you'll be able to retire in your mid-to-late 30s.

Resist the inclination to expand your expenses to match your income; it doesn't actually make you any happier, long-term. (Many different studies have confirmed this: increasing your level of spending tends to give you a short-term burst of happiness followed by a return to the baseline; it doesn't permanently raise your baseline.)

You don't necessarily have to retire early. If you prefer, keep working past that point as long as you're enjoying yourself. You'll be able to have a lot more flexibility in your work, and later in your career you'll be well into the territory of "start your own charitable foundation" or "don't bother raising a series A".

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#485

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Just curious: How did you manage to transfer your Bay Area salary to Austin? I would imagine that $120K is a ridiculous amount there. How did you even ask for it with a straight face? Are you making 2X all of your co-workers or something?

I'm in Dallas and I just hired multiple people at around 120k each. 120k is very reasonable here. 60k is entry level here...you might be able to get away with 50... 200k+ isn't uncommon either. There is a stupid amount of money here in tech... Not as much VC money, but startups and small businesses actually making rev. (Not social 'pre revenue' apps made by kids) thrive here.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#486
post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

If high-rise development solved the problem of high rents, then why is Manhatten so expensive? Thought experiment: Let's say we do massive high density development in SF. A bunch of people move in, but now that SF is denser it's more desirable, so demand has increased as well, which drives rents right back up. Now we're stuck where we were before: high rents. Having said that, I still support high density development…

Prices depend on two things: Supply and Demand.

When you ask why Manhattan is expensive even with increased supply, you ignore demand.

The theory that increased density in itself drives up the value of housing is popular among anti-housing activists. I've never heard an economist who believes it.

If true, it would be an incredibly simple way to generate enormous amounts of money to simply building super dense neighborhoods. Since I don't see anyone getting rich off that, I have strong doubts about that model.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#487
post #429

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I…

Where did you move to in Austin with 1,100 square foot for $1,150 / month? I am in downtown Austin. My rent is just shy of double that and I only have a 500 or so square foot apartment. I have a hard time believing you moved to something comparable to SOMA. I'm going to guess you live either more North or South of downtown and have to commute if you work or want to get downtown. Which I think many would agree is not…

Not the OP, but I live less than four miles north of downtown Austin and my rent is $800. I have two roommates and we have a 2000 square feet backyard. I wake up every morning to bird's chirping outside my window. It's amazing.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Increasingly, the choice not to locate your company in SF is a sign of competitive intelligence. Sorry, but this is flawed logic. Tech, more than seemingly any other industry I can think of, has a winner-takes-all model of success. Given this, starting a tech company anywhere other than where the overwhelming majority of the most capable employees live is virtually suicide. And this seems to pan out in the data as…

Surely the fact that a huge portion of startups start in SF could account for the fact that a huge portion of winners came from SF? You're also biased because you're paying more attention to startups in SF - the Bay area doesn't even come up with half of the big startups, and yet you failed to name a single one from anywhere else. A quick scan of Fortune's unicorn list* shows 12 out of the top 25 are from outside of…

Of the top 25, only two American companies are not in the Bay Area, and one of those is still in California.

For an area with less than 2% of the country's population, that is overwhelmingly dominant. I'm not sure if you could have underscored my point any more succinctly.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#489

Yes, rents are high, but if you invest even a little bit of time you can find a fine residence in the Bay Area for a lot less than $4,500. I rent a two bedroom house in Oakland for $2,200. My commute is not too much longer than it would be if I live in certain parts of San Francisco. There's simply little advantage to living right in the heart of a major city. You have to ask yourself: "Instead of renting in a high-p…

i have a similar anecdote, when i arrived in the bay area in 2011, i was paying the exact same rent in east palo alto, when i left in 2015, my rent had gone up to $2,750. As my lease neared expiration, my landlord decided against renewing it and instead the house was sold because they were looking for a good exit.

i don't blame them, everyone has their reasons, but i want to caution you that while it's possible to find a good rental that works out for some period of time, it's not a long term assurance and being forced to move can make it difficult to acquire a place as favorable as the one you have with the combination of commute or rent or other intangibles you've grown accustomed to in your neighborhood. Or you may find one at the price, but it may take a much longer time than you have allotted, especially in this market where qualified renters are plentiful and willing (often out of necessity) to pay high rents for substandard properties.

I also asked myself the same question you did, but the conclusion i reached eventually involved me moving out of state last year. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#490
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to…

Funny you mentioned not being able to get a good meal after 9:30pm. That was the most frustrating thing about being in San Francisco for me. I hated that the whole bay seemed to shut down @10pm - almost as if everybody has to wake up the next morning to work another 12 hour day to pay the insane rent.....

But you can. The Brazen Head in the Marina, Thai Noodle on Haight and a bunch of places in North Beach will happily serve till 1 AM or later and at a quality that doesn't even compare with fast food. In fact since I've moved to SF, going on ten years now, I've found pretty much most of the rest of the country (NYC and LA excepted) to be quiet a sad food desert.
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