How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#481

Post by masklinn » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 10:52 AM UTC

awjr wrote: post #476

masklinn wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Webstorm is exceptional and worth every penny. Webstorm was heavily discounted compared to the other specialised IDEs (mostly because other specialised ones included Webstorm's features, at least before AppCode and CLion) That has been rectified, Webstorm is now 99/year and completely worthless (since RubyMine, PHPStorm and PyCharm give you Webstorm + a "server" language for the same price)

"server" language? You may have heard that Javascript is doing rather well these days ;)

And you may have tried to understand the point rather than look for places where you could land a snide comment. Alas, you chose otherwise.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#482

Post by nadams » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:04 PM UTC

rangitatanz wrote: post #448

mikeash wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm accepting that but pointing out that it still applies to many.

Yes you are but you are providing no concrete examples of that. I'm interested to hear your examples?

I have a feeling that the people posting here on HN that are against the subscription may only be a small percentage of their user base.

Personally I don't upgrade - because I don't need to. But if given the subscription I probably would if the price was right. Take Office 365 - yeah you can pay $200+ for a full offline copy but you have to do that for every version (and the whole keeping track of your media). Or just pay $99/year and get a perpetual license + extras + online installer. I know there are a number of people who are like "open office does everything I need!" - and that's great but just wait until you need to work on a document with another person who is using office 20XX and open office doesn't support the subtle formatting in that version yet. I know of a large company that tried switching to open office - they couldn't do it because open office didn't format many documents correctly.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#483

Post by awjr » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #481

awjr wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"server" language? You may have heard that Javascript is doing rather well these days ;)

And you may have tried to understand the point rather than look for places where you could land a snide comment. Alas, you chose otherwise.

Well I'm not sure why you would put "server" in quotes.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#484

Post by masklinn » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 4:51 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #483

masklinn wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you may have tried to understand the point rather than look for places where you could land a snide comment. Alas, you chose otherwise.

Well I'm not sure why you would put "server" in quotes.

Because they're not solely for web servers, and because as you so astutely noted javascript can be used in a server role.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#485

Post by specialist » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #66

What bugs me about this is when I asked them about the change on Twitter and they kept trying to blow smoke up my butt about how it's better for everyone. Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Then they said it's better because you can jump in and out at will. Only need Product X for a month? Only pay for a month. Which is fi…

Everyone's just trying to get their nut.

I imagine they're stumbling thru this viable business model notion, just like everyone else.

Cut them some slack.

I frankly don't care about the price. Developers need to get paid. I hope they figure out something fair (reasonable) with modest profitability, so they can enjoy vacations and have hope of someday retiring.

If I ever stop renewing (or subscribing), I can just use the community version.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#486

Post by simoncion » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 11:02 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #475

simoncion wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pixard said: > I think (for me anyway) the problem isn't the price at all. It's the fact that if you let your subscription lapse you CANNOT use the product . (emphasis mine)

So pay yearly and make sure at the annual accounting meeting to renew your Jetbrain subscriptions because they are the ultimate infrastructure for your company?

My comment was tailored to address killface's dramatic lack of understanding [0] of pixard's statement. :)

[0] Indeed, he appears to have failed to read and/or comprehend the first two sentences in pixard's comment.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#487

Post by EthanHeilman » Sun, Sep 06, 2015, 12:17 AM UTC

cool-RR wrote: post #258

EthanHeilman wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not the price, it is that if I write some software in an IDE, I want the capability to push a bug fix out two years later without having to "subscribe" again. This will just further contribute to bitrot. >taxi drivers invest more money than software developers Citation needed. >software developers make quite a bit more money than taxi drivers. You are assuming that everyone who develops software is employed as a…

>> taxi drivers invest more money than software developers > Citation needed. Pretty sure that for the price of a car, including maintenance, you could pay for a nice workstation and multiple monitors with lots of "expensive" software on a subscription model. > You are assuming that everyone who develops software is employed as a software developer. There is fine work done by hobbyists and independents. If you're dev…

>Pretty sure that for the price of a car, including maintenance, you could pay for a nice workstation and multiple monitors with lots of "expensive" software on a subscription model.

Most taxi drivers don't own their own car. The person that owns the car and own the medallion taxes the driver, typically but not always, a percentage of the drivers income[0].

[0]: http://work.chron.com/much-fare-taxi-drivers-keep-22871.html

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#488

Post by bluebeard13 » Sun, Sep 06, 2015, 4:08 AM UTC

Yeah, really bad....b4, we had a choice of when we would upgrade, if it's worth it, was there enough innvovation, etc. now, 'you' are forced to keep paying for upgrades, even if you don't need them right away, or want to just skip one. Sucks really bad...As a longtime user 10+years, I'm out...ransom does not play well with me.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#489

Post by codersteve » Sun, Sep 06, 2015, 9:45 AM UTC

mattkevan wrote: post #317

mikeash wrote: post #66

What bugs me about this is when I asked them about the change on Twitter and they kept trying to blow smoke up my butt about how it's better for everyone. Their first response was that it's cheaper than before. Except it's not. Did they think I wouldn't actually go look at the prices? Then they said it's better because you can jump in and out at will. Only need Product X for a month? Only pay for a month. Which is fi…

The problem with SAAS pricing for previously bought software is that the conversation changes from 'Pay us for this great bit of software, then pay us again when we make it even better', to 'Pay up or all your years of work goes away'. It's a fundamentally different relationship.

Agreed. The incentive to make it better becomes less because users are on the auto-pay plan. Whereas they have to prove themselves worthy of the upgrade otherwise.

Re: How JetBrains Lost Years of Customer Loyalty in Just a Few Hours

#490

Post by nadams » Sun, Sep 06, 2015, 3:49 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #444

PaulHoule wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Eclipse has the Linux GUI curse. Linux users expect the GUI to be unusable so they split into the camps who (i) think Eclipse is the bee's knees or (ii) use vi. The difference between IntelliJ and Eclipse is like night and day -- Eclipse fans think the plug-in feature is great but install one too many plugins and your Eclipse will get sick with pluginitis.

I recently had to use Eclipse again, after 5+ years of Emacs mostly coding sessions, and boy it was tough. I kept thinking it's just one IDE, and others are better, thinking about IntelliJ. Heh. ps: people, take a look at Emacs, it really is nice, and only needs 8MB cough

> I kept thinking it's just one IDE, and others are better, thinking about IntelliJ. Heh.

I usually don't endorse a product or service (different tools for different tasks and different people etc) but at least try out IntelliJ. I'm pretty sure there is a reason why Google decided to dump Eclipse in favor of IntelliJ as their officially supported IDE.

You may be able to crank out code faster using vi and/or emacs - but an IDE will be more advanced to tell you mistakes that could mean a world of difference. You don't know how many times I've seen people make simple mistakes writing PHP with vi that could have easily been avoided using an IDE.