The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#481

Post by tormeh » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 8:42 PM UTC

Hhefferman1989 wrote: post #299

yellowstuff wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia somewhat agrees with you, saying: > In common usage, [expatriate] is often used in the context of professionals or skilled workers sent abroad by their companies. A Guardian writer disagrees, saying "expat" means "white immigrant": http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-... Personally, I think "expat" is used more in the sense of an (usually white) immigrant from a richer country to a p…

I lived in Berlin and knew many Indian and African software professionals who moved to Berlin for a specific job and very much considered themselves (and were considered by others) to be expats. I understand what you're saying, but in practice the usage of these terms doesn't break down in the way that the Guardian article would lead you to believe.

Berliners call everyone not settling down permanently "tourists" and resent them somewhat, if my impression is correct.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#482

Post by Lawtonfogle » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 8:43 PM UTC

s73v3r wrote: post #453

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are three questions here. Is it legal. Is it moral. Should it be legal. The last is quite complex and I won't get to it here because of the vast differences in moral theories as to what should and should not be legal. As to the first, is it legal? Hacking isn't. The end. But the middle question is interesting, and I dare say that many people have views such as my own, where morality is not dependent on…

There has to be an extremely strong moral case to override something already being illegal. This doesn't even come close.

Perhaps under your moral framework. But perhaps some other person's framework is different, either requiring a weaker case, seeing this as being a strong enough case, or maybe even having an exception just for a case like this.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#483

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 8:46 PM UTC

digler999 wrote: post #460

rhino369 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he enlisted reputable journalists to process the documents and make decisions about what was safe to release and what wasn't. That's really only the bare minimum. He also exposed a bunch of obviously legal programs that just made the US look bad to allies or outted intelligence programs designed to attack future potential enemies. He did this because he believed those actions were morally wrong. I don't see how that…

> Both are punishing people for violations of your moral code. The difference is that exposing someone having extramarital sex doesn't violate the US Constitution and the rights of 300M of its citizens.

Most of what Snowden exposed doesn't violate the constitution or the rights of any US citizen.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#484

Post by ElComradio » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:01 PM UTC

camillomiller wrote: post #475

ElComradio wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be confusing cause and effect. Long term serial monogamy is the norm across cultures and religions. It does not mean any other arrangements are objectively "wrong" but this meme of "Everyone would do X if not for cultural oppression!" is wrong. It's the same delusion that goes on with people who claim everyone is bisexual; it's a wish fulfillment fantasy of people who are outside the norm.

Where did you get that from? I'm not saying that, not at all. Do I think that living and open relationship (not necessary polygamy, because the terms implies numerous relationships each with the same affective and contractual status) is the best way to go? Yes. Does that imply that humanity, freed from the religious oppression, would go for that? Not at all. There might even be some biological bases for monogamy, but…

You seem to be taking contradictory positions, or I'm misunderstanding. You think that open relationships are the best way to go. But then you say that most people wouldn't go for them if religious strictures were lifted. Are you drawing a distinction based on religion specifically versus culture overall? One would presume that worldwide, if there was no "artificial oppression", people would naturally be mostly into open relationships if that's truly the natural state.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#485

Post by digler999 » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:12 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #483

digler999 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both are punishing people for violations of your moral code. The difference is that exposing someone having extramarital sex doesn't violate the US Constitution and the rights of 300M of its citizens.

Most of what Snowden exposed doesn't violate the constitution or the rights of any US citizen.

most ? even one abrogation is a serious issue!

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#486

Post by thekingofspain » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #405

astrashe wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Snowden had just taken the documents and posted them online without any filtering, it would have been extremely unethical. It would have gotten people killed. But that's not what he did -- he enlisted reputable journalists to process the documents and make decisions about what was safe to release and what wasn't. Let's say the hackers in this situation wanted to prove that Avid Life Media was acting unethically --…

The spouses who believed they were in a monogamous marriage deserve a divorce and the chance to be with someone honest who cares about them. I'm not sure how you see staying together blissfully unawares as the better option but then again I don't like children.

> The spouses who believed they were in a monogamous marriage deserve a divorce and the chance to be with someone honest who cares about them.

I agree, but that's not for us to act upon.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#487

Post by LordKano » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

I have little to no sympathy for the people who are embarrassed by this release.

They willingly signed up on a site that's intended use is for people to cheat on their spouses.

Society doesn't take marriage as seriously as it used to but I happen to think that it means something.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#488

Post by adamconroy » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #4

tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

Some people simply lack the capability to challenge their own opinions and beliefs. I find it very unattractive. On the other hand other people like myself are too objective and open minded, and as a result never form a strong opinion on anything, which is probably equally unattractive.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#489

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:48 PM UTC

gnaritas wrote: post #341

humanrebar wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would then ask for proof that family is indeed the "basic building block of society" I think the burden of proof goes the other way, considering marriage laws (including those that punish infidelity) have been part of common law for hundreds of years.

The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the claim, so no it isn't the other way around.

Have you seen a society of random people who don't have long-term relationships? A country which laws don't treat family as a basic concept, and third of which is not built around it?

That family is a fundamental unit in human societies is a pretty much self-evident thing at this point. The burden of proof lies squarely on those who disagree with observable reality.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#490

Post by tlb » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #489

gnaritas wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the claim, so no it isn't the other way around.

Have you seen a society of random people who don't have long-term relationships? A country which laws don't treat family as a basic concept, and third of which is not built around it? That family is a fundamental unit in human societies is a pretty much self-evident thing at this point. The burden of proof lies squarely on those who disagree with observable reality.

Malinowski [0] describes a highly functional such society. Instead of paternity and monogamy, they had a similarly complex but different set of taboos. Reading it will help you realize what a cultural bubble we all live in, and that there are completely different configurations of society that also work.

[0] http://www.amazon.com/Sexual-Savages-Argonauts-Western-Pacif...