How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life • Hacker News Board

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#471

Post by throwaway09332 » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

brandonwamboldt wrote: post #298

forrestthewoods wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the opposite. I use my real name, or real enough, everywhere. It makes me think twice before hitting enter. Anything I say I'm backing up, for better or worse, with my identity. I may someday regret this decision. So far so good.

I do the same thing, I use my real name as my username on all social media sites including Reddit. I always think to myself, is this something I want permanently associated with my real identity? It could obviously backfire. You say something that you think is fine, someone else gets offended, and they know exactly who you are. But generally, I think using your real name makes people more accountable for what they sa…

The problem with this approach is you have no idea what will become wrongthink in the future. In 2008, opposing gay marriage was a relatively mainstream idea. In 2014 someone was fired for donating to an anti-gay marriage campaign. In 2015 it might be acceptable for one to express wariness of expanding the H-1B visa program, but in 2020 will it be so?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#472

Post by gadders » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

to3m wrote: post #223

gadders wrote: post #101

I think some people don't feel fully validated or had a complete day unless they have found something online to be outraged about.

This has long been the raison d'etre of downmarket UK newspapers The Daily Mail and The Daily Express.

A fair point. Also Comment is Free in the Guardian.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#473

Post by mcphage » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #288

mbreese wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they are going overboard... I stopped reading when I saw the word "sociopathic".

Do you think campaigning to ensure a group of people don't have certain fundamental rights that others do, for no reason other than your own personal animosity, doesn't qualify as sociopathic? I do.

> for no reason other than your own personal animosity

If that's your understanding of people who vote against gay marriage, then you really have no idea what's going on in this country.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#474

Post by stolio » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

jakejake wrote: post #333

gnopgnip wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would society really be any better off if people aren't held accountable for what they say?

I kinda agree, a PR person of all people should be held accountable for making a terrible joke that comes off as racist. The problem is just the reaction of a mob of arm chair vigilantes thinking they are each delivering some unique tiny bit of justice with their comments, emails or calls. It's a death by a thousand cuts, not to mention the nut-cases who send horrible threats of violence and worse. It's obviously som…

I'm not sure it goes back to the formation of our DNA. Or at least not in that way.

We're raised on stories of Abraham Lincoln and Rosa Parks and we idealize how important they were to society. Now as people leave childhood and begin facing their own complete lack of importance think they can join the social justice fight and simply by bullying people really be somebody. They'll spend hours a day in a rage at their keyboards while thinking what they're doing is really benefiting society.

Getting outraged politically is a quick and easy path to a social identity and group membership. That does make us sound a bit like apes....

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#475

Post by mcantelon » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:38 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #269

coldpie wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against him and he was forced to quit. Hahahahahahaha no. Eich paid money to political campaigns to ensure that some of his own employees and fellow citizens would not have basic human rights. Then, he refused to apologize for it and dodged the question when asked if he would do it again. That's not "expressing an opinion," that's nearly s…

> Then, he refused to apologize for it and dodged the question when asked if he would do it again. That's not "expressing an opinion," that's nearly sociopathic. Forcing someone to apologize for something that is not universally considered to be wrong is a good example of bullying. As is calling publicly his behaviour "sociopathic". > He was clearly working against his employees' best interest. This is hardly conside…

Made me think of this tweet I saw the other day:

"Everyone who questions my obviously compassionate and righteous cause is a dangerous sociopath" — Many sociopaths

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#476

Post by geofft » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #458

geofft wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do about George Wallace in 1963? Leave aside the question of whether social justice today is comparable to the anti-segregation fight 50 years ago (reasonable people can disagree), and let's just think about segregation. The governor of Alabama literally says in his inauguration speech, "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." You have the option of going to Congress and passing a…

If the government making laws is "the very incarnation of threats and intimidation" then you have never really been subjected to threats and intimidation. I hate to burst your bubble but not everyone is from the states, so it is difficult for me to comment knowledgeably on your reply. From what I can see George Wallace was a politician, if you don't like what a politician says you vote against them. I would not condo…

Sorry, that last line was from a song, "Sweet Home Alabama," that briefly mentions Gov. Wallace. It's decently well-known in the US, but my mistake in expecting everyone would recognize it. :)

Anyway, nobody's talking about shooting or terrorizing anyone. But the Civil Rights Act in the US compelled private business owners not to discriminate in their clientele, and that compulsion was behind the (implicit) threat of police response, as with just about all government compulsion. That is way more of a response than anyone's discussing in this thread; the worst that's happening is people losing their jobs and livelihoods, which is pretty bad, but not nearly as bad. But it's not a particularly common belief today that the Civil Rights Act was evil, or that its ends did not justify the means of government compulsion. (It was a somewhat common belief then, and some US politicians did oppose it on those grounds, though who can say if they also privately objected to its substance.)

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#477

Post by spb » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

ripdog wrote: post #195

potatolicious wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I... what? Hold your horses, there's an awful lot of projection here. I haven't come in here to defend internet lynch mobs - there's literally not a word in my post condoning it. The bulk of tech progressive aren't the ones spoiling for a Twitter fight, they're the silent majority that's reading posts on HN, rolling their eyes, maybe sighing a little bit, and moving along with their lives. They're not orchestrating b…

I'm sorry, I was overreaching. Your reply seemed to support the OPs idea that Adria Richards was harassed for no reason by "MRA losers". >These are the people I'm talking about - the ones who've largely left this place behind because the tone of the community has shifted to one where any talk of race, gender, or even age (or in fact any talk of institutional problems in the industry) is automatically the work of prof…

> that time Ben Noordhuis was forced out of the Node community because of a SJW hate mob enraged over a pronoun

bcantrill commented on this above, with more authority than I could address this with: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9041086

Also, it's worth noting Ben Noordhuis wasn't forced out of the Node community - just the core contribution team (although I do believe he chose to take a break afterward). His company, StrongLoop, would go on to be the owners of the Express repo, and Ben Noordhuis is one of the contributors to IO.js.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#478

Post by spb » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 9:59 PM UTC

sintaxi wrote: post #466

bcantrill wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago (!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those who vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident. Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?) regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-…

Its fruitful to reflect on such past behavior both professional and personal. I have my share of regrets as well. None of us are without fault, just some of us have our mistakes more amplified than others. It important to learn from such things. In interest of personal edification (since you seem to be open to feedback) the one criticism I have about the Noordhuis incident is that in my opinion if you felt as strongl…

So here's the thing I've always been a little fuzzy on. bnoodhuis' reversion said (to isaacs) "All patches have to be signed off by either me or Bert."

The reaction would seem to indicate that this is like telling Linus Torvalds he needs approval to land patches in Linux. Was there anything codified anywhere explaining that this was the case? Did that rule only apply for code and not docs changes? Was the sign-off rule not actually written down anywhere?

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#479

Post by rihegher » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 10:00 PM UTC

audessuscest wrote: post #461

a3_nm wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French guy here as well, and this was exactly my reaction. It seemed very exotic, this notion that an employer was allowed to fire you just because a bunch of people on the Internet have started disliking you in a vocal way because of something you said (as an individual, not reflecting your employer's opinion, not illegal). This feels like the main issue here. Barring substantial improvements in everyone's maturity,…

you're wrong, this happened in France too, and it happened a lot last year : http://rue89.nouvelobs.com/2014/01/02/quenelle-nabil-perd-em... just one example...

Ok but when I wrote fired, I was thinking about permanent position (CDI). The article state that he has been forced to quit his job rather than being fired, which is not really clear. His position may has just been a seasonal one as the place he was working in is apparently opened during summer only.

Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life

#480

Post by geofft » Thu, Feb 12, 2015, 10:10 PM UTC

bcantrill wrote: post #423

geofft wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He acknowledges that in the replies, but this particular "idiocy" is not one of tone, behavior, or offense. It is about bad technical policy in the pursuit of ego, which is something that Linus has done several times since. (And he's a brilliant enough kernel hacker that he can work around his own bad policy and still come up with a system that works well, but that doesn't mean it's not bad technical policy. I feel b…

It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago (!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those who vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident. Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?) regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-…

Haha, hi, thanks for showing up on the thread. Not that I have any real justification in having opinions on something you said to someone else while I was in third grade (... although I think I was using Solaris then), but as a random member of the open-source community, I do appreciate you saying this clearly. :)

I did see it brought up first by some obvious single-purpose-troll account on Twitter in the midst of the pronoun incident. And just to make sure I'm being totally clear, I'm not bringing it up because I want to dog you with it, but because I think it's a great example of how everyone's fallible, even the people that I most look up to for how they push a community to be better. The standard isn't perfection and it's not about individuals per se; it's about improvement, as a community. We ought to criticize so we can build a better community, not so that we can knock each other down at the first mistake.