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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I didn't go to those schools. That doesn't mean the environments the original comment that started this chain mentioned don't exist. That was my only point. Whether they are desirable or not is another question. But I don't think we should pretend it's one with an obvious answer for parents. Yes, you don't want to stress out your kids. But I'm not sure it's so easy to blame parents from those hyperc…

Surely these hyper competitive neighborhoods are full of already wealthy people? I hear about people "needing" to spend a ton of money on kids as part of this competitive scene and I just don't get it. If you're that worried about them, why not invest that money into a house (which costs the same as e.g. 4 years at Yale, but you could potentially rent it out until they're old enough, and finance it) for them so that…

It's a good question I would just suggest to you a lot of the behavior around wealth doesn't really make sense if you are just doing that kind of back of the napkin math.

Like all the wealthy workaholics who just don't stop. They've so clearly made it and don't have to work anymore, but they can't even take it easy on themselves never mind their kids.

I suspect there is a lot in the psychology of an overachiever that isn't simply turned off when one hits a financial benchmark or has a child. In the latter case, this often seems to make things worse. A parents duty is to care for their child. Having your kid end up being the wealthiest barista sounds about as good a strategy as thinking someone will have good financial sense after winning the lottery. A fool and his money are easily parted. If you worry about what will happen to your kids after you die, as many parents do, simply passing down a bag of money often doesn't feel like enough, even if to others lacking such a luxury this appears indulgent.

But I agree it's a good question and also perhaps has similar implications for broader questions of public policy, such as state driven income redistribution, etc.

It's also good to remember that you never really know what is going on inside other people's homes. Wealthy neighborhoods have all sorts of wrinkles and disparities, even if on balance they are clearly privileged compared to whatever the national mean is. Perhaps the more opulent the neighborhood the more the scenario you lay out is prevalent. There are plenty of neighborhoods with overachievers who have done well that don't yet represent the sort of people you might say posess "generational wealth", where this sort of thing is basically the whole idea. But then again, it's a matter of perspective. I mean you could also probably live in a cheaper neighborhood and spend less money. Questions of work and wealth have always been tied to questions of morals and power. Top schools aren't just about earning potential. They are about access and prestige. They simply don't attract people who just want to get by.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#472
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we wake up at 7, prep the kids to school, they walk there alone then, we have coffee together, then I drive to the office by usually 9:30. have a proper lunch break with colleagues, then in the office until 6pm or so, then drive home, have dinner, put the kids in bed by 8, then we can watch a movie/do hobbies/etc. while I work, my wife can do the shopping and take care of other household chores if needed.

Those aren't high school kids prepping for college that you are talking about. Just wait a few years

not so worried, to be honest. Switzerland is much more chill in live at everything

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#473
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not actually less certain now than it was then. It’s just the media has gotten louder. Cuban missilie crisis, civil rights, world wars, nuclear weapons, it has all been happening for a while.

When you look at real wages vs cost of living and the trend line is down and showing no signs of ever going back up, the question will I be able to afford the resources to survive and have a family, will my kids be able to afford a home, that's the growing uncertainty.

Here's the actual data broken out for a variety of locations (I see someone else found the whole country): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release?rid=439

The data don't support the story you are telling, at least not on a 17 year time scale. Most places including LA and New York actually show the opposite. Real wages are rising faster than cost of living in the long term just about everywhere in the US.

I understand the argument, and housing is a problem, but there just isn't much to support the doom and gloom narrative if you don't use cherry picked data from opeds. I suspect that a lot of people have distorted views about what they should be able to afford.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you worry about any of those things as a freshman?

Yes? When I started college 16-ish years ago the '08 financial crisis was still fresh in my mind. Many of my peers were deeply concerned about the kinds of jobs and wages they could expect to find after graduation.

And did that worry manifest?

As someone that graduated when you started and was much closer to 08, it turned out to be a non-issue for everyone I know that went to college with me.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is widely believed, but not true: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N . There is a real issue that housing is unreasonably expensive in many areas, which we could fix via the innovative strategy of not making it illegal to build housing.

Now plot that wage plot against productivity, or corporate profit, or any US stock index, or as you said: housing costs. Real wages are not keeping up with anything . It's not just housing.

That data exists.

Here is real wages with cost of living factored in for a bunch of locations in the US. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release?rid=439

This data shows that real wages are rising even with cost of living factored in.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. > None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about…

> Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about.

The person whose view you endorse supports what many parents believe. I’ve seen how the sausage is made, and he has it (mostly) wrong.

Many people seem to think that being more above average is the key to elite school admissions. It helps, and it’s directionally correct (one needs to show academic competence), but the key is to be truly exceptional in something.

Five extracurriculars is almost the same as one or even none if there was no demonstration of exceptional performance or leadership.

Taking the max load of AP classes versus just a few is not as helpful as people seem to think. Using one’s time to do something unique and/or exceptional would be time much better spent.

I beat this drum as often as I can here and elsewhere, but the upper middle class folks in that particular rat race don’t seem interested in hearing what I’m saying.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#477
post #450
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like, ivies and whatever are great. But overscheduling and overstessing to get into one isn't. Many states have a guaranteed acceptance path to a state school and/or a path where you do two years at community college and can transfer into a state school to do two more and get a bachelors. A great school on your degree can open doors at the beginning of your career, but missing out on that isn't some terrible tragedy.

I want to add that the UC schools system has (had?) something like this. I know a good number of very intelligent people who did 2 years at a Community College and ended up going to UC Berkeley, UCLA. Not Harvard but West coast ivys at the very least.

Not only that, but there are specific JuCos that specifically feed into these schools with an incredibly high acceptance rate.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely these hyper competitive neighborhoods are full of already wealthy people? I hear about people "needing" to spend a ton of money on kids as part of this competitive scene and I just don't get it. If you're that worried about them, why not invest that money into a house (which costs the same as e.g. 4 years at Yale, but you could potentially rent it out until they're old enough, and finance it) for them so that…

It's a good question I would just suggest to you a lot of the behavior around wealth doesn't really make sense if you are just doing that kind of back of the napkin math. Like all the wealthy workaholics who just don't stop. They've so clearly made it and don't have to work anymore, but they can't even take it easy on themselves never mind their kids. I suspect there is a lot in the psychology of an overachiever that…

I mean I've done very well in my life; my wife and I both moved up several classes, but I take ownership of educating my kids. My oldest started kindergarten today, but she's already a couple years ahead, and she's only really in school for social reasons. I don't think school is going to help you to avoid being duped. In fact, if these "elite" educations cost as much as a house, that is the first scam to avoid. Poor first lesson to fall for the upper middle class version of a gucci bag!

Similarly, I plan for my kids to go to university, but for social reasons (it's the best place to find a spouse IMO), and that's exactly because I can see that the rational economic choice in the face of uncertainty is not to buy (or finance!) an expensive credential, but to buy a house and not fall for materialism. Books are free if your goal is to learn. An "elite" university is therefore less important than one with strong social pressures against things like casual relationships.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#479
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. > None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about…

> Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about. The person whose view you endorse supports what many parents believe. I’ve seen how the sausage is made, and he has it (mostly) wrong. Many people seem to think that being more above average is the key to elite school admissions. It helps, and it’s directi…

It's worse, this is mostly just to be a shoe-in for a good state school, with a "maybe I'll get lucky and an ivy will accept anyways", unless you're really exception in at least one of these areas.

> Using one’s time to do something unique and/or exceptional would be time much better spent.

The fact is that most high schoolers are just not unique or exceptional but still want a shot to break out of currently very poor job prospects or hourly labor. I think many of these kids are capable of much more once they have some time to grow up, but the system is such that they need to show their color by roughly 17 to be "exceptional" along the traditional route.

I was in high school not that long ago, I understood the point you make then, but it didn't make me unique or exceptional. Most kids just want to be good enough, to do okay.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been a while, but when I was in high school, I was up at 6:30 so that I could run through the shower, get to 7AM jazz band late, be at school until 4ish, then off to my minimum-ish wage job until it was time to go to evening jazz/symphony/other bands. Home at 8 or 9; bullshit some homework for a passable grade; and then do it again (I was often doing homework during band practices). Weekends were music events. I…

> The stories I’ve heard from others indicates to me that my experience was not unique. Unique no. Hugely outlier, yes.

You kidding? Did you not know working class kids who actually needed a job?
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