Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

epoch.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 524 posts

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#471

Post by viccis »

alexwwang wrote: post #416
viccis wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I, as an American engineer and user of tech hardware from China for quite some time now, need to immerse myself in the Chinese factories as if they are somehow worse than other ones throughout the world? Thanks, please give my regards to Kash Patel.

You just cannot see your privileges.

It's not that I cannot see them; it's that I don't care. And I certainly don't entertain sanctimonious "le China bad" nonsense like that. You live in a country where every 5 years has been substantially better than the previous 5 for a while now. You don't understand your own "privileges" if you can't understand what it's like to live in a country on a free fall that has foreclosed on the possibility of ever building anything again unless it's the latest investor ponzi scheme.

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#472

Post by Danox »

raincole wrote: post #341
brandensilva wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is about to flood the market and prove this notion wrong. If there is demand they want to meet it with supply. But to your point, that is exactly how American companies like to play now. No one is stopping them from screwing over the consumer. I have a Micron near me and they are building another chip facility but we are years away still so I suspect China will beat them to the punch.

Not just DRAM market, but the GPU market soon. China is the great equalizer of the world.

The thing about China is that they will iterate and iterate some more until they get there and then once there, well like BYD they will disrupt the entire market the cozy days of resting on your laurels for the American/Korean memory companies is over.

The big three memory makers will probably face their last big payday. I hope they enjoy it, as China will dominate the global memory market in three-five years due to their short term greed.

Apple will likely bring memory in-house, like they did with CPUs and GPUs. Anyone questioning the time it took to replace Intel and Qualcomm should consider the Chinese expansion in the memory market, which makes it a long-term necessity.

Apple has the money, and while its competitors have spent/squandered $1 trillion on the AI data center fiasco. Apple made a decision to stay away from the blast crater.

Meanwhile Apple which also has the expertise in engineering and chip design can do what is necessary and bring memory in house. Note: Nvidia and Broadcom have also been replaced along the way by Apple also.

Who knows maybe Intel will condescend to do memory too?

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#473

Post by Danox »

gpm wrote: post #352
raincole wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just DRAM market, but the GPU market soon. China is the great equalizer of the world.

> Not just DRAM market, but the GPU market soon China doesn't have EUV fabs... They've pushed DUV impressively far... but until they get EUV working industrially (and reasonable timelines are at least 2-4 years for that) it shouldn't be possible for them to compete for that market. > China is the great equalizer of the world. China is hardly an egalitarian society...

But they do build infrastructure, usable, infrastructure, ever already built that railway all the way to Tehran, and once the war is over between Ukraine and Russia, they almost certainly will build high speed rail all the way to Europe.

Would’ve been nice if the United States had built a rail system to north to Alaska or even a rail system to Chile to the south?

I guess doing things like that are hard to do when you’re busy fighting multiple wars since the early 1950s.

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#474

Post by irishcoffee »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #459
irishcoffee wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is willing to do business while giving zero fucks about the environment they are destroying and the global warming they are causing. It really blows my mind people support the china thing so much around here.

China is deploying more renewables than most of the world, in some calculations outspending the rest of the world. Chinese per-capita emissions have peaked at lower level than US and are already falling.

According to whom?

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#475

Post by Curosinono »

zdragnar wrote: post #454
Curosinono wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try to see how poor US Americans have to life. Normal people who have to wait for an event were doctors do free health care in a sport gym for a handful of days.

The Chinese healthcare system is not so different from that in the US. It is primarily employer-sponsored insurance, with subsidized insurance programs for poor and rural folk. Up until 2005, roughly 10% of the population couldn't even access healthcare, at which point the PRC built out more care centers and invested in training more doctors, but there's still a significant shortage, such that scalpers sell outpatien…

Thats not true though.

First of, even per capita, the USA is at 8th place while China is 74.

For sure China has a problem due to its gigantic size and amount of people to even be able to reach its people, but the health care costs are nowere as high as USA has. USA is actually the country with the highgest % of GDP spend for health care alone.

Just checkout a YT video from an US American going to a normal chinese hospital and then compare the bill.

And in parallel the USA is dismantling medicare, medicad and co.

This is also directly reflected in the life expetency: US Americans are getting less old than Chinese people.

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#476

Post by raincom »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #386
raincom wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to Indian constitution and other laws, incompetence is heavily praised and promoted. Go to any public high/elementary schools, go to any private colleges, it is rampant. It has taken three generations to produce these bad results. Of course, I am not saying that students are dumb. It is just that many smart kids in villages if given an opportunity, will leave India in a heart beat because they don't see a brig…

Indian bureaucracy thinks extremely short term. The state prioritizes extracting revenue over all else. So many baffling short-term decisions over everything from corporate tax breaks to a incentives for global events like Formula 1.l You really can’t expect the same bureaucratic setup to think in terms of the decade+ it would take to be competent at something like chips

Indian bureaucracy exists to enrich themselves for their next ten generations. The bureaucracy itself promotes, recruits incompetents. There is no way to reform such a bureaucracy.

The whole system needs to be dismantled while an alternative system gets built; given the nature of Indian politics (freebies/jobs/reservations to certain groups; monthly stipends to certain groups by borrowing money while at the same time looting public funds), it is impossible.

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#477

Post by HFguy »

Danox wrote: post #472
raincole wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just DRAM market, but the GPU market soon. China is the great equalizer of the world.

The thing about China is that they will iterate and iterate some more until they get there and then once there, well like BYD they will disrupt the entire market the cozy days of resting on your laurels for the American/Korean memory companies is over. The big three memory makers will probably face their last big payday. I hope they enjoy it, as China will dominate the global memory market in three-five years due to…

"short term greed"

There is a certain amount of capacity to produce memory. They are building new facilities but it takes a long time. They have been burned going down this route many times in the past (e.g., losing money, firms that are no longer in business).

What would you have them do instead?

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#478

Post by Forgeties79 »

peroxy wrote: post #432
Forgeties79 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Used enterprise HDD’s also jacked up now. It’s absurd lol

Just decided to buy 8 drives for my NAS and was surprised to see nothing in stock anywhere + prices are 3-4x higher than half a year ago. Just wasted 2k eur for 8x8tb, it should be plenty enough for my NAS but I feel stupid having to waste so much money.

Ridiculous prices indeed. I was grabbing refurbished/recertified 14tb helium drives for under $200/ea barely a year ago

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#479

Post by Forgeties79 »

HDBaseT wrote: post #335
Forgeties79 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brutal. I only did a 6 drive bay and I was angry lol

He is talking about the company '45Drives', which produce solutions which aren't only 45 drive bays. [0] - https://www.45drives.com

Appreciate the clarification!

Re: Memory has grown to nearly two-thirds of AI chip component costs

#480

Post by zdragnar »

Curosinono wrote: post #475
zdragnar wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese healthcare system is not so different from that in the US. It is primarily employer-sponsored insurance, with subsidized insurance programs for poor and rural folk. Up until 2005, roughly 10% of the population couldn't even access healthcare, at which point the PRC built out more care centers and invested in training more doctors, but there's still a significant shortage, such that scalpers sell outpatien…

Thats not true though. First of, even per capita, the USA is at 8th place while China is 74. For sure China has a problem due to its gigantic size and amount of people to even be able to reach its people, but the health care costs are nowere as high as USA has. USA is actually the country with the highgest % of GDP spend for health care alone. Just checkout a YT video from an US American going to a normal chinese hos…

Rural China has a per capita GDP 1/10th of the US adjusting for purchasing power; if their health care wasn't cheaper only the very richest could afford anything at all. Even the wealthy coastal areas are 1/3 of the US.

China and the US have the same life expectancy of 79 years, which is a very recent phenomenon due to the 2005-2018 changes I mentioned earlier. Obesity, lack of exercise and other cultural factors weigh down the US life expectancy compared to all other Western nations. China's use of abortion during the one child policy era also prevented a lot of people who would have had chronic medical conditions and disabilities from being born.

It is not yet true, however, that Americans are getting "less old", though it may soon depending on how China manages it's own growing obesity problem and tobacco use.

Post reply on HN