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I moved my digital stack to Europe

monokai.com

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#471

Post by joe_mamba »

thrownthatway wrote: post #261
joe_mamba wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just ASML, when I working in EU at another major Dutch semiconductor company, the leadership and decision making was mostly US-based and centered around US policies, even if the HQ was still technically in the NL, but because PE and most other major investors were all US Bay Area. For example my manager had to reject a candidate from Iran, simply due to US policies, even if that wasn't against the EU policies, an…

Out of curiosity, did the startup you used to work for survive?

Yep, they grew quite well, though it was pretty toxic, just like a lot of small Austrian companies with PE as investors, lots of layoffs and people coming and going all the time, mismanagement, too much dependence on cheap foreign student visa labor, etc.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#472

Post by toyg »

weberer wrote: post #399
riccardomc wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is definitely also about public opinion and it is going to be translated into laws soon enough (i.e. governments mandate data sovereignty). Recent erratic policies are having a profound effect on perception of US companies. It has been brewing for a while. https://www.euronews.com/next/2025/02/27/is-overreliance-on-...

>it is going to be translated into laws soon enough (i.e. governments mandate data sovereignty) The laws are already there. That's my point.

His point is that those laws were basically ignored, until now.

The conversation started all the way back, with the Patriot Act, but until now the dynamic was roughly: politicians write lofty laws that pay lip service to data sovereignty, then add enough loopholes so that nothing has to change in practice, and nobody really cares.

Now people do care, and they don't want to use those loopholes. It's pretty obvious why things have changed.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#473

Post by jeffrallen »

pjmlp wrote: post #270
kreco wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a programming language is not the same as using a service. I can't seen any reason for this to be "the biggest issue".

Attack vectors and supply chain, every piece of the puzzle matters. There is no accident that folks like Oxide go through the trouble to control the whole stack, hardware, software, programming language toolchains they are using, only working with vendors that provide them every single documentation and customisation points they need. Unfortunely we lack an European Oxide.

They use Go and Rust. If Oxide thinks they can keep the supply chain risks of their langiage ecosystems under control, I think the rest of us can too.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#474

Post by holistio »

As a fellow European who's also working on a similar move, I would just like to note that it is absolutely surreal that we have to consider this.

I wish it was motivated by pure patriotism (give our money to relatively local businesses), but it's motivated by uncertainty, something I wouldn't have expected from the USA in my younger years.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#475

Post by monokai_nl »

Hey, thanks for reading and it's great to read your interesting discussions.

Couple of things.

The main reason to move my data to the EU is that I live in the EU and I don't want a few non-EU companies in an unstable political climate have control over it. It's too unpredictable and I rather support companies closer to my jurisdiction.

I know the EU isn't perfect. And my stack is not 100% EU at the moment. I'm a pragmatist and just got down and transitioned the bulk of my services. Always room for improvement.

Some good points: my domain is owned by the US. That's true, but no way around it I guess (I do own the .nl too though).

I should dive deeper into using something else than GitHub / GitLab. Indeed maybe Codeberg / Forgejo.

And Cloudflare proved not to be ideal today (thanks for the hug of death). I still think using Cloudflare is a problem data-wise, because it only handles public data, but I might look at BunnyCDN again to see if they have better limits.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#476

Post by j_maffe »

gmueckl wrote: post #344
palata wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU hate each other I see how it may look like this from the outside. But I think it would be like saying that siblings hate each other because you witnessed an argument. Most people in most EU countries consider the other EU countries as allies, even though they don't agree on everything. Now the fact that 27 countries argue means that they talk to each other. I think it's a lot less polarised than in the US. Or co…

The EU needs to be more vigilant than ever, though. Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU for decades and now the US has openly declared a goal of exporting their brand of blind ignorant nationalism to the EU as well. Both influences will boost alt-right parties if successful. The obvious intended outcome for both powers is a EU that is breaking up from the inside. On the posi…

> Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU

Let's not pretend that nationalism doesn't have deep roots in Europe.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#477

Post by j_maffe »

AllanSavageDev wrote: post #176
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

EU hosting their own ops like they built the Airbus A380: Database runs in France, front end in Belgium, Operations in Spain... EU Fairness dictates they all need to get a slice of the pie so this will be interesting (and by that I mean absurdly hilarious).

Well Airbus is doing much better than Boeing so I'm not sure what's the problem.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#478

Post by tamimio »

Since you are already in the migration process, should’ve migrated to self hosting instead, full independence and control, Europe isn’t that different from US, they just have few extra steps on how to handle your data. Self hosting is literally a weekend project once you have bought the equipment (or just use an old pc with hdds), and they are not expensive either, and you can even host stuff for your friends and family too. Maintenance is minimal as well, you can automate few cron jobs in proxmox and enable backups (plus 3 2 1 rule). Your data is in front of you, all yours, you don’t need permission to delete or access that, you don’t need to become a lawyer and read terms and laws, you don’t to call support for whatever either.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#479

Post by pjc50 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #421
pjc50 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. The real enduring toxic legacy is the packing of SCOTUS, sold to voters as a means of overturning Roe V Wade but in fact a massive enabler for corruption and gerrymandering. Those guys are there until they die or Democrats grow a spine, probably the former.

>Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. Any democratically elected leader can cause huge problems during their mandate, not just Orban or Trump. You have to wait for elections or their term limit to kick them out peacefully. The difference is whatever the person in the US president seat does, massively affects the whole world, not just the US, which is why we talk a lot more about the huge problems Tru…

The EU absolutely can't cancel elections in EU countries!

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#480

Post by j_maffe »

kzrdude wrote: post #339
PaulKeeble wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is threatening war with the the EU and its allies. A loss of trust doesn't quite convey the seriousness of relationship destruction this causes and the monumental shift that is now happening.

Leaders are not conveying so much about the loss of trust, because they are saving face for the US to try to rescue what little can be rescued of the remaining relationship.

probably also to not make feel Trump too isolated in fears he does something unfixable.
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