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Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

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Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#471

Post by otterley »

necovek wrote: post #452
otterley wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. We don't know that. Perhaps they would pay, at a lower price. 2. If it's OK for one person not to pay, why should anyone pay?

1. A copyright owner can test this easily by offering a discount. 2. Because they are getting significantly bigger value out of it. Because they know ahead of time they want more of this type of content to be produced. Because they have more disposable funds. Because it is available in their country legally. Because their streaming package already includes it. Because their cable package already includes it... Need I…

> Because they are getting significantly bigger value out of it. Because they know ahead of time they want more of this type of content to be produced. Because they have more disposable funds.

Those are reasons that someone might choose to pay. These are also the same reasons why one might want to donate to charity or to non-profit/public media (PBS, NPR in the USA). In other words, they're a voluntary patron of the arts. And there's nothing wrong with that, when the organizations are non-profit/public or charitable. In fact, I think we'd all encourage it.

However, not every media organization is a non-profit/public operation or a charity. Those who are made a choice to be that. Those who didn't--well, they chose to remain for profit.

The point is that we, as individuals, do not get to override the choice of whether a publisher is for profit or non-profit by taking the law into our own hands--just like I don't get to turn your back yard into a public park when you're not using it. After all, you're not using it, right?

You and others keep saying, "no loss in revenue, no harm done." (Just like, "no loss of use of your back yard, no harm done.") But that's not the point. It's about infringing on others' rights.

> you are conflating is it OK not to pay with any loss of profit: they are not the same even if there is correlation.

This is just silly: Where does the profit come from if nobody pays? Again: if you don't have to pay, it must follow that nobody should have to pay. If you disagree with that, then who gets to choose who pays and who doesn't? You? No; that's for the law to decide. That's how democracy works.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#472

Post by otterley »

squigz wrote: post #458
otterley wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not going to do that. And here's why: because if you have an excuse, everyone has an excuse. And if everyone has an excuse, the entire system falls apart. I'll reiterate what I said above: entertainment and software are not life's essentials. Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them. Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either. On the other hand, I bet there have been some pretty serious repercussions due to the sweeping bans like in TFA.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either.

The logic here is quite simple: if you don't have to pay, nobody else has to pay, either, because you're not special. If nobody pays, then people who make media and software won't get paid, and production will slow to a crawl. You'll have destroyed the very thing you seem to desire enough to steal.

How does this not make sense to you?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#473

Post by squigz »

otterley wrote: post #472
squigz wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by being denied access to them. Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either. On the other hand, I bet there have been some pretty serious repercussions due to the sweeping bans like in TFA.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either. The logic here is quite simple: if you don't have to pay, nobody else has to pay, either, because you're not special . If nobody pays, then people who make media and software won't get paid, and production will slow to a crawl. You'll have destroyed the very thing you seem to desire enough to steal. How does this not make sense to you?

Maybe because I'm not so arrogant as to imply everyone has to have the same views and act the same way as me, nor to imply that my view is the only right one.

But nah, you're right. Nobody has to pay. Everybody should pirate.

Now, that's been true for decades, of course. So why hasn't the entire system fallen apart?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#474

Post by otterley »

squigz wrote: post #473
otterley wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's going to be seriously harmed by us pirating them, either. The logic here is quite simple: if you don't have to pay, nobody else has to pay, either, because you're not special . If nobody pays, then people who make media and software won't get paid, and production will slow to a crawl. You'll have destroyed the very thing you seem to desire enough to steal. How does this not make sense to you?

Maybe because I'm not so arrogant as to imply everyone has to have the same views and act the same way as me, nor to imply that my view is the only right one. But nah, you're right. Nobody has to pay. Everybody should pirate. Now, that's been true for decades, of course. So why hasn't the entire system fallen apart?

> I'm not so arrogant

Believing oneself to be special and above the law such that one feels justified in trampling on others' rights is textbook arrogance.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#475

Post by squigz »

otterley wrote: post #474
squigz wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because I'm not so arrogant as to imply everyone has to have the same views and act the same way as me, nor to imply that my view is the only right one. But nah, you're right. Nobody has to pay. Everybody should pirate. Now, that's been true for decades, of course. So why hasn't the entire system fallen apart?

> I'm not so arrogant Believing oneself to be special and above the law such that one feels justified in trampling on others' rights is textbook arrogance.

Not everyone in the world is subject to the same laws.

To say nothing of what all that means when those laws are unjust and themselves serve to trample on individuals' rights.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#476

Post by otterley »

squigz wrote: post #475
otterley wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not so arrogant Believing oneself to be special and above the law such that one feels justified in trampling on others' rights is textbook arrogance.

Not everyone in the world is subject to the same laws. To say nothing of what all that means when those laws are unjust and themselves serve to trample on individuals' rights.

> Not everyone in the world is subject to the same laws.

Are you?

> To say nothing of what all that means when those laws are unjust and themselves serve to trample on individuals' rights.

What rights are you speaking of, exactly?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#477

Post by fluoridation »

fragmede wrote: post #470
fluoridation wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people will tell you that is because paying for car insurance is rarely something you can just opt not to do, at least not without consequences. The consequence for not paying for a $10/month service is having to perform a minimally inconvenient chore once a week.

Yeah, for a fucking airplane . In most of the world, that's way up there with yachts as a rich people toy rather than a everyday necessity. The real question though is, upon having discovered this, why allow them to keep doing that?

"I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks." The same habits that let a nouveau riche amass enough fortune to afford a plane make them penny pinch after they no longer need to.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#478

Post by smsm42 »

scotty79 wrote: post #81
petcat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there need to be EU-level regulations against individual countries, such as Spain and Italy, implementing these absurd restrictions Why should other EU members care what websites Spain allows their citizens to access? Does the "EU" even have authority for such a thing?

Basically EU should step in whenever country level government doesn't do a good enough job for its citizens. It's not strong enough to do that yet but a lot of people with cheap governments wish it was.

If Spaniards think their goverment is doing a bad job, why don't they vote them out? They are still a democracy, aren't they?

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#479

Post by necovek »

otterley wrote: post #476
squigz wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone in the world is subject to the same laws. To say nothing of what all that means when those laws are unjust and themselves serve to trample on individuals' rights.

> Not everyone in the world is subject to the same laws. Are you? > To say nothing of what all that means when those laws are unjust and themselves serve to trample on individuals' rights. What rights are you speaking of, exactly?

They are not: if they never travel to Afghanistan or Ethiopia, they will not be subject to their laws.

Laws change even in the same region, so it is also temporal.

And one can work to change the laws too.

But it does not make sense, you have your pre-defined opinion and you are sticking with it, and we do not buy your argument, so it's best we agree to disagree here.

Re: Spain to expand internet blocks to tennis, golf, movies broadcasting times

#480

Post by bluecalm »

joquarky wrote: post #393
bluecalm wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Spain has such amazing quality of life if you are not already set. It's very tough for young people. It doesn't reward hard work and education. If you have your nice house in a nice place and a good government job it's a happy place but from what I see around people, especially young productive people are not in good place here. Spain is lucky that it gets around 20% of its economy because of nice weath…

> It's very tough for young people. It doesn't reward hard work and education. Isn't this applicable to pretty much everywhere now?

Imo USA is much better than EU (and especially countries like Spain) on this one. I live in EU, my family (both immigrants from different countries) live in USA. I don't think it's comparable. In USA if you are somewhat smart and somewhat hard working you will do very well vast majority of the time. There are significantly more opportunities there for people who want to take them.
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