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Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

hormuz.pythonic.ninja

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Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#471

Post by trimethylpurine »

oa335 wrote: post #467
trimethylpurine wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran (govt) is not Iranian. They are occupied. And yes. From your same source (Israeli news) for added effect. https://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/palestinian-tradition-... Thousands more similar articles. This is not a new tradition. Decades of this same behavior everywhere that Iran operates terror orgs.

I shared articles of Israelis celebrating deaths of Palestinian civilians, and you shared an article of Palestinians celebrating Israeli deaths. I asked for proof of your claim that Iranis celebrated civilian deaths and you still have not shown that. Additionally your statement: “ Iran (govt) is not Iranian. They are occupied.” betrays a basic ignorance of Iran. Irans government is comprised entirely of Iranians. Las…

[flagged]

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#472

Post by mlinhares »

flyinglizard wrote: post #62
lukan wrote: post #48

Ok, I did win. Do I get cheaper gasoline now?

That's it? Momentary gasoline price is all that matters now? Not geopolitical interests, alliances, _Doing The Right Thing_? If that's the only angle you care about, then US subduing the Iranian regime would go a long way to de-facto dissolving OPEC and bring much more flexibility to oil prices.

So much bullshit. The best way to dissolve the OPEC is to stop buying oil from them. Period. A country like the US should not be burning oil or any kind of fossil fuel for its electricity, we're rich in rivers, sunlight and have tech enough to build as many nuclear power plants as we want.

This is all being done to prop up oil prices, but China is going to be the silent killer here, helping the world move to renewables and OPEC won't be a thing anymore. Its to see a country committing suicide like this.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#473

Post by testaccount28 »

oa335 wrote: post #458
testaccount28 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

either way, you may wish to know: your poor argumentation shores up support for the war.

You may disagree with the idea that militaries are responsible for civilians they kill regardless of intent, but it is not poor argumentation. And the fact that it triggers you to support the war reveals more about you than you may intend.

you've mistaken my comment! i do not support the war.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#474

Post by trimethylpurine »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #407
trimethylpurine wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you support Khameini's call and platform to fund the export of Islamic Revolution? Do you believe that other countries should be allowed to defend themselves from the import of Khameini's Islamic Revolution? Or did you not know that this was his openly stated purpose? How many people have to die before you start blaming the international community for inaction or worse, you start to feel that the international com…

I don't know why you decided to hop to multiple unrelated threads of conversation with other people while ignoring my reply to you on this subject specifically earlier, but to restate: wholesale violence does not solve terrorism. You already fucking tried this in Afghanistan, and failed, badly . The solution to terrorism is to stop giving people reasons to be terrorists, which means you must stop killing their people…

So by your reasoning America is the terrorist. Got it.

But then it's Iran that's giving America reasonable cause to be terrorists. Maybe the US is the biggest terrorist in history. Good for you, I'll buy your story for the sake of discussion.

But then why isn't the IR subject to the same scrutiny? Why are you criticizing one side, but not the other.

For me, I criticize IR far more than the US for banning free speech. For hanging and mutilating women. For kidnapping civilians. For celebrating Israeli deaths. For using residences and schools to house munitions and military targets. For openly advocating that their purpose is to "export Islamic Revolution." For subjugating and murdering protesters by the tens of thousands. And more...

For me this makes the US the lesser of two bad actors. I don't have much choice but where I do, I choose the less immoral, and hopefully I'm right. That doesn't mean I promote the violence on either side. Or that I like or agree with either side.

There's bad and worse. That's politics and even more so, that's war. But I'm definitely not voting for worse.

Change my mind. Seriously...

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#475

Post by noduerme »

none2585 wrote: post #165
noduerme wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's left of the Iranian regime is basically like the Houthis now, reduced to getting world attention by committing random acts of piracy and firing at random ships off their coast. To make whatever point they were trying to make. Seems like a win to me. Declare victory, say the straight is open, just like the Red Sea is open. If anything moves at shipping, destroy its source. They don't have a right to attack m…

> They don't have a right to attack merchant vessels This is a sovereign nation that is being attacked by a waning superpower. It's war and they are retaliating in really the only way that they can force America to back off - which is make the war really expensive and even more unpopular domestically.

That's clearly the strategy the headless Iranian regime is pursuing. Their prior strategy of arming regional proxy regimes and paramilitary groups to deter and expand their reach failed spectacularly, in large part because it sufficiently irritated the Gulf states, and Israel, and the US. So if all that matters here is whether they pick a winning strategy, then it's questionable whether further aligning all their neighbors against them is going to work out in their favor.

However, even if it were a winning strategy, on the bet that the US will back off if the IRGC can inflict enough economic pain on US allies, it would still objectively amount to piracy and terrorism to attack merchant vessels not aligned at all to the US or involved in any way in the war. If you think the US or Israel has no right to attack and degrade Iran's military capacity to the degree they feel is necessary for their own security, you can't possibly say the IRGC somehow has a right to attack third parties to the conflict. If the disparity between who has the right to do what hinges upon who the aggressor is, consider that it was Iran which first fired a missile from its own territory at Israel, not the other way around. But in what case is a private vessel flagged in Malaysia and on its way to Japan or something a valid target? To say so would explicitly mean that every country in the world is fair game because Iran is at war with the whole world. If that's the case then what exactly is wrong with the world removing that regime?

You seem to be implying that whether or not it's successful, the Iranian regime's strategy is justified in some vague moral sense. That isn't an argument, it's a feeling. All it exposes is that you have a favorite side in this war, which is at least anyone who opposes America, if not the Iranian regime specifically.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#476

Post by stogot »

tyre wrote: post #316
axegon_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not. Afaik only the Dutch have eaten their leader in a time of desperation and while I'm not saying that other nations should have taken notes, we are probably all thinking it...

I don’t think it was in desperation but to disrespect him for his crimes

Who are you talking about so I can waste my weekend reading this ?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#477

Post by Pay08 »

pablomalo wrote: post #465
Pay08 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A UK base was attacked. Would you rather Starmer be the next Chamberlain?

Fallacious comparison, two entirely different situations. For a start, whatever the Iranian response, the aggressor at the root of this particular episode is the other side: the U.S.

Yes, I'm sure Iran is completely honest and knows what it's doing at all times. It's not like there's no central command and someone surely knows what everyone else, including proxies are doing, right?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#478

Post by Pay08 »

torginus wrote: post #423
Pay08 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With what communication protocol? Does high-frequency radio have the range for that?

I was thinking you could run a fiber optic cable. Those have proven themselves to work over 10s of miles in Ukraine with drones.

Wouldn't you need to invest into deep sea cables then?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#480

Post by Hikikomori »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #463
Hikikomori wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add, Israel killed Irans negotiators last year when they were approaching a deal. This situation is manufactured.

"Negotiators!?" They were torturing children and using the videos for ransom. Did you just not know that or you would still call that negotiating?

Ali Shamkhani

Are you talking about Hamas?

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