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ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

davidoks.blog

471–480 of 607 posts

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#471
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My prediction is no, because productivity gains must benefit the lower classes to see a multiplier in the economy. Baumol's cost disease hurts the lower classes by restricting their access to services like health care and education, and LLMs/agents make it possible to increase productivity in these areas in ways which were once unimaginable. The problem with services is that they're typically resistant to productiv…

Can a robot write a medicine prescription? A medical procedure prescription? If yes, that would be a game-changer. But the medical insurance providers would be very cautious about honoring these. Then, if things go wrong, what entity would be held accountable for malpractice? You already can get a good-quality medical advice "for nothing", unless it requires e.g. a blood test. The question is, how actionable such an…

There's a simple solution. If a medical malpractice happens, law suit against the LLM company. If their license is revoked as part of that finding, unfortunately that applies to the "doctor" (e.g. ChatGPT).

Same for self-driving. Just hold each car like a normal driver, the owning AI company has liability. So after ~20 tickets and accidents in a week, a few ambulances being blocked, the only option is to revoke the driver's license (of which, all the cars share one, as they have the same brain).

This would make AI companies more cautious and only advertise capabilities they actually have and can verify. They would be held to the standard of a human. I think that's reasonable (why replace humans if the outcome is worse, and why reduce protections for individuals).

To make the analogy more clear: even if a telemedicine doc sees 10,000 patients a day all over the world, they would be held liable for any medical malpractice. Bad enough, and their license would be revoked, regardless of the fact that they see many patients all over the world. Same deal with AI / LLM -- if ChatGPT is making medical advice and it hurts someone, that's the same as a human doing so -- its malpractice and lawsuits can happen.

If they are somehow licensed, well then that license can be revoked. We would revoke a human's license for a single offense in some cases, the same should occur with AI.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technological progress that hurts more people than it helps isn't progress, it's class warfare. I think this is right. The historical analogue I keep drifting toward is Enclosure. LLM tech is like Enclosure for knowledge work. A small class of capital-holding winners will benefit. Everyone else will mostly get more desperate and dependent on those few winners for the means of subsistence. Productivity may eventuall…

I like how you identified the pattern of defeat and still complied in advance.

What?

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#473
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will never ever be as cheap as as cron job and a shell script. Yes. That's precisely why my company runs dBase 7 on a fleet of old 286DX machine from Compaq. /s Running obsolete software will be cheaper, but the value provided by the newer technology will make the difference insignificant.

I don't think so, because that carried efficiency scales. Why do 50,000 tasks with an LLM when I can do 64,467,235 without an LLM that the LLM created for the same cost on probably far lower cost hardware?

Because in their ideal world, you won't have your own hardware beyond a secured thin client running only "approved" programs running on their servers.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#474
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely untrustworthy, so eventually we'll hit an inflection point where we discover that we either cannot use AI anywhere we need trust, or we'll put a human middleman in there. The latter sounds much more realistic. There will be plenty of jobs. We've spent over 300 years doing the Luddite song and dance. To be clear, I have no problem with Luddites and do not view them negatively, but to imply that this pr…

Im not sure we want to live in a world where no one works. Maybe I’m wrong, and I certainly have no studies backing up my feelings, but not having to work seems like it would be a massive psychological disaster. Having external reasons to get up in the morning (providing for your family, being apart of some organization, etc) feel really important.

work =/= having a job

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#475
I feel like even the phrasing of the original assumption that "we have more bank tellers now that we had before", which seems to imply that ATMs didn't affect or even boost the number of bank tellers is flawed.

If you look at the graph, the number of bank tellers from 1980 to 2010 went from roughly 500k to 550k (a 10% increase). However, the U.S. population grew from 220M to 305M in the same period (a 40% increase). To me, that seems to indicate that less and less people were becoming bank tellers after the invention of the ATM. Although from the graph again, you can see that the correlation is quite poor anyway.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like someone forgetting that for a large number of people, their mobile device is their only computer.

Browsers and websites work pretty well on mobile devices too. Website != desktop only

Personally I find the web almost unusable on mobile. It's bad enough on desktop.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#477
This is a whole wall of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You can’t state with any certainty that the ATM’s increased efficiency had anything to do with the expansion of bank branches. That could have simply been due to the strong population and economic growth. It’s quite possible (and I’d assume it to be true) that if the ATM had never been invented, there would have been far more bank tellers in 2005 than there were.

You also can’t assume the iPhone had that much to do with it. With the exception of depositing checks, there was nothing I couldn’t do on my computer in 2005 that I could on my phone in 2025. And you could always deposit a check at an ATM. It wasn’t like in 2006 we were all like “well I can only check my bank balance on my laptop so I’m going to drive there instead.”

It seems quite likely that other trends caused all of this.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#479
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The duplication is the same It is not. Seven teams all working under one leadership is quite different to seven leaderships each working with one team. When different governments (e.g. USA and USSR), and thus different leaderships, are both trying to solve the same problem (e.g. travel to the moon), that too is considered efficient competition.

Oh, so seven /leaderships/ is what's made the difference? If a government did this (e.g., seven independent agencies competing for a moon landing), people would call it "fragmented," "uncoordinated," and "bureaucratic infighting."

Seven independent government agencies are still an arm of the same leadership.

When complete organizational separation is introduced, the concerns you speak of go away. In the USA, the ARPA (you might recognize that name from the thing you're using right now) program regularly enables "seven" independent leaders to tackle a problem and this is widely considered a resounding success.

Re: ATMs didn’t kill bank teller jobs, but the iPhone did

#480
post #441

I think people sometimes forget how backwards the US is, when lived in SF 7 years ago, you couldn't do wire transfers online. Maybe some banks, maybe some people. But I constantly had issues with debit cards being rejected, wire transfers having to be done on a branch, etc. I doubt there is a modern bill payment system yet. Where as in Denmark, I've bought house, mortgage, wired >100k, bought stonks, none of it requi…

An American colleague once said the following: if something is stupidly inefficient or done in an illogical way in the US, it's because someone makes money on it.
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