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Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

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Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#471

Post by awesome_dude »

lovich wrote: post #437
redeeman wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does this renewable policy of wind farms etc also extend to the rain forest being cut down for balsawood? or the landfilles the massive chunks of fiberglass coated wings then get put into? I guess we need a new planet when we're done filling it with junk and have depleted all the rain forest etc

What is the balsawood comment in reference to? I’ve never heard that mentioned in conversation around renewables but it’s not my area of expertise.

I didn't know about balsa wood in Wind Turbines either until this thread - looked it up and found that it's being replaced with PET foam because of the problems caused by deforestation (etc)

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/executive_briefings/e...

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#472

Post by kkkqkqkqkqlqlql »

redeeman wrote: post #391
reillyse wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Fossil fuels are not cheap in Ireland, I think we only produce a small quantity of natural gas, everything else is imported. Ireland should be running towards renewables, we have no indigenous fossil fuels industry to lose and every watt we generate from renewables is money that stays in Ireland. We should be focused on reducing nimbyism and building out renewables.

does this renewable policy of wind farms etc also extend to the rain forest being cut down for balsawood? or the landfilles the massive chunks of fiberglass coated wings then get put into? I guess we need a new planet when we're done filling it with junk and have depleted all the rain forest etc

Ah yes, the Landman argument.

https://youtu.be/wBC_bug5DIQ?si=rfKryFd9fgJ1Gw0h

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#473

Post by Qwertious »

FrojoS wrote: post #262
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual causes of electricity cost rises in Ireland being higher than Europe are: Lower population density on a grid without good connections to neighbours. Previous underinvestment in network infrastructure. Gas price rises combined with Ireland having less renewables that the EU average (middle of the pack for electricity, 3rd from bottom on total energy). Maybe saving the world a bit harder would have helped ke…

> The actual causes of electricity cost rises in Ireland being higher than Europe are Wrong comparison. Most of Europe has way too high electricity prices. It seems logical that ending the use of existing coal energy infrastructure puts upward pressure on prices. Coal is cheap, abundant, energy dense. Yes, burning coal causes lots of problems and I support ending it's use, but this is besides the point.

>Coal is cheap

No it's not. I'm not talking about the environment either, coal plants are just straight-up more expensive than gas plants and renewables.

Coal plants are necessarily steam turbines and not internal combustion, because coal is filthy and the mercury/sulfur/etc would wreck the guts of any machinery it goes through. Thus, it's only used to boil water.

Gas turbines don't have that problem, so they spin the turbine with the combustion products directly. They're far more efficient, the machines are smaller and cheaper, and because you don't need to wait for a giant kettle to boil before ramping up the power, they're far more flexible and responsive to demand. It also helps that the gas is fed with a gas pipe, whereas coal needs to be fed with a bobcat.

Which is why nobody is building new coal plants - they're way more expensive than gas plants, even if the gas fuel itself is more expensive than coal.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#475

Post by thinkcontext »

dmitri1981 wrote: post #379
lostlogin wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would any free market proponent like to chime in here? Why hasn’t this occurred?

It's not a free market in Europe since there is vast amount of planning regulations involved etc. If you want to see free markets in action, look at the electricity prices in Texas, where ironically renewables are also the dominant source. https://www.gridstatus.io/live

Texas is an interesting example because they allowed true unregulated rates for residential consumers. Consumers liked getting lower rates until that winter storm a few years ago had bills for some in the $thousands. Then they didn't like the free market so much.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#476

Post by dadoum »

tonfa wrote: post #456
eloisant wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because of the rules of the European Energy Market where all electricity has to be as expensive as the most expensive source. So as soon as Germany lights up their gas powerplants, that follow gas prices (wars, etc), French nuclear electricity has to be sold for the same price.

> rules of the European Energy Market where all electricity has to be as expensive as the most expensive source. aren't all/most electricity market working this way (pricing based on marginal price, aka pay-as-clear)? pay-as-bid has other potential issues and might not be better.

Yes, but that's assuming that there should be a free electricity market.

The fundamental issue with electricity markets is that they cannot rely on any signal other than the electricity price to control whether a given plant will be running at a given time or not.

I think a real alternative would be to set-up an entity charged with negotiating prices with the electricity producers (which would also be a sort of partial reversal on the whole market thing in a lot of countries).

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#477

Post by Qwertious »

eloisant wrote: post #441
pocksuppet wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's due to tax it can't be used to advocate the pros or cons of market arrangements, since we don't know what the market would be doing in the absence of the tax.

It's because of the rules of the European Energy Market where all electricity has to be as expensive as the most expensive source. So as soon as Germany lights up their gas powerplants, that follow gas prices (wars, etc), French nuclear electricity has to be sold for the same price.

>It's because of the rules of the European Energy Market where all electricity has to be as expensive as the most expensive source.

Are you talking about the marginal cost? Don't blame the govt, blame the economics textbook.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#478

Post by hunterpayne »

reillyse wrote: post #361
bryanlarsen wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coal is cheap, abundant, energy dense. Coal is neither cheap nor abundant in Ireland.

This. Fossil fuels are not cheap in Ireland, I think we only produce a small quantity of natural gas, everything else is imported. Ireland should be running towards renewables, we have no indigenous fossil fuels industry to lose and every watt we generate from renewables is money that stays in Ireland. We should be focused on reducing nimbyism and building out renewables.

Ireland isn't sunny enough for solar to help with AGW. In fact, solar in Ireland actually just frontloads and exports to the 3rd world the CO2 generated. Oh, and the power to make PV panels...comes from coal. On the other hand, if you just put a windmill next to an Irish politician, you could power the entire country.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#479

Post by linksnapzz »

ok_dad wrote: post #436
linksnapzz wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rankine cycle efficiency can be up to 45%; monocrystalline solar panels ~25%? I suppose you aren't paying for the sunshine, but if cloudy days affected coal power, James Watt wouldn't be famous.

Luckily solar panels work for 30+ years while coal works for only as long as you burn it. You can also recycle solar panels, but try reversing entropy to get your coal back and you’ll see what’s up. Cloudy days are solved by wind, ocean energy, geothermal, storage, etc.

"Cloudy days are solved by wind, ocean energy, geothermal, storage,"

Or, as Homer Simpson famously put it..."I dunno; Internet?"

But seriously, there's no significant recycling of solar panels, coal extraction is a known process, and good luck running an industrial economy exclusively on renewables.

Re: Ireland shuts last coal plant, becomes 15th coal-free country in Europe (2025)

#480

Post by toraway »

observationist wrote: post #327
cauliflower99 wrote: post #70

Irish man here - Over the last few years, we've graduated from providing cheap energy to now importing most of our energy. We've seen huge energy price increases as a result. We're seeing more and more cost-of-living protests, the war now means more will suffer with fuel prices and we're still going ahead with closing down energy suppliers (this is a 2025 article but the point still stands). To anyone praising these…

So glad you're taking the hit for the rest of us. Your sacrifice is totally worth the .001% difference you make, every little bit counts. Why is it people can clearly see the recycling scam for what it was, but the idea of coal or carbon fuels makes them entirely unable to handle any sort of thinking that isn't entirely superficial and one-sided? Maybe, like everything else in life, it's a complex series of tradeoffs…

This is just vague, incoherent angst dripping with so much sarcasm that it’s impossible for me to even understand what you’re trying to say.
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