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A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

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Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#471

Post by hliyan »

bmitch3020 wrote: post #290

Reaction 1: how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data? Reaction 2: it's open source, make the lawmakers do submit the changes. Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced? Would they outlaw downloading distributions, or even older versions of distributions? When there's no exchange of money, a law like this is seems like it would be suppression of free speech. Reaction 4: Someo…

Continually surprised by politicians wanting an OS to do what a parent should be doing. Why not just mandate that all devices with access control capabilities implement parental controls, and then mandate that all adults enable controls before handing a device to a minor? For devices that are incapable of user access control, the same rules as a knife, chainsaw or gun apply.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#472

Post by palmotea »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #467
palmotea wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but Oh, there's more: Medicare, Social Security, the highway system. The whole food/medicine regulatory system is also a big one, and it's the reason a lot of US (and European) products like baby formula are imported into China, because they can be more trusted. My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "th…

This discussion about the purpose of government is valid as a way to disagree with the "willingly buy" language, but it's still true that most of those examples don't answer the question and to refuse them is not "weaseling out".

> but it's still true that most of those examples don't answer the question

That's because the question is bad. It was meant to challenge the benefit of government, and a non-answer was meant to be interpreted as "government > and to refuse them is not "weaseling out".

It'd be weaseling out of the faults of the question.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#473

Post by elfly »

WalterBright wrote: post #382
hash872 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proto-Internet. GPS. Nuclear energy. MRIs. Fracking. The Human Genome Project. Fiber optics. Optical data storage. Jet engines. Heck, the entire space industry. Lithium ion batteries. Radar. Night vision technology. Modern lower limb prosthetics. Just off the top of my head

Jet engines - Frank Whipple (England) and Franz Ohain (Germany) invented them. In both cases the governments were not interested in them until flying jet aircraft were demonstrated. Lockheed was ordered by the government to abandon their jet engine project and focus on piston engines instead (which resulted in the US having to get started on jet aircraft by buying British machines). Human genome - J. Venter was the f…

No company ever got a man to the Moon.

Sure, some companies participated in the process. But it was a government that did it.

It's been more than 50 years and private companies haven't been able to match it.

The greatest technical achievement of mankind was done by a government. Private industry could, at best, help.

Sorry all the other things you name are great. But the winner is government.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#474

Post by Dylan16807 »

safety1st wrote: post #441
charonn0 wrote: post #434

Skimming the actual text of the law[1], I don't see anything particularly objectionable. Basically it requires a toggle when creating/editing a local user account that signals "this user is/is not a child". Applications could then tailor their content for child/not child audiences. Which isn't to suggest that it's a good law, just not really "age verification". [1]: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextCl…

My first reaction is that this is an insanely bad law: * The signal has to be made available to both apps and websites * So if you dutifully input valid ages for your computer users, now any groomer with a website or an app can find out who's a kid and who isn't. You just put a target on your kid's back. * A fair share of parents will realize this, and in order to protect their children, will willfully noncomply. So…

> So if you dutifully input valid ages for your computer users, now any groomer with a website or an app can find out who's a kid and who isn't. You just put a target on your kid's back.

I'm not going to say that's impossible but the number of sites that do the right thing and reduce risk are going to vastly outnumber that. And 90% of those kids already have targets on their backs by virtue of the sites they visit.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#475

Post by flenserboy »

jmward01 wrote: post #468
vineyardmike wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are some enforcement questions here, especially around non commercial OSes, most of your reactions are clearly based on the headline alone. It defines operating system in the law. This wouldn’t apply to embedded systems and WiFi routers and traffic lights and all those things. It applies to operating systems that work with associated app stores on general purpose computers or mobile phones or game console…

" It applies to operating systems that work with associated app stores on general purpose computers or mobile phones or game consoles. That’s it" Everything is a general purpose computer. Just look at how many things have been made to run doom. I haven't read the law specifically but if it actually does say this then that language is useless and means practically everything.

vague laws are put in place so that they can be used selectively to punish particular victims while letting friends through the nets

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#477

Post by dataflow »

bmitch3020 wrote: post #290

Reaction 1: how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data? Reaction 2: it's open source, make the lawmakers do submit the changes. Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced? Would they outlaw downloading distributions, or even older versions of distributions? When there's no exchange of money, a law like this is seems like it would be suppression of free speech. Reaction 4: Someo…

> how would this even work with embedded systems that have no UI to input this data?

Doesn't the bill explain all this pretty clearly? https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtm...

>> An operating system provider shall [...] provide an accessible interface at account setup that requires an account holder to indicate the birth date, age, or both, of the user [...]

>> “Operating system provider” means a person or entity that develops, licenses, or controls the operating system software on a computer, mobile device, or any other general purpose computing device.

Your hypothetical "embedded system" almost certainly neither has an account setup process in the first place, nor is it a general-purpose computing device, a mobile phone, or a computer.

> Reaction 3: how would this ever be enforced?

Pretty easily? They enforce it against the OS vendor for not providing such a process. They aren't enforcing the correctness of the age, nor are they claiming to.

> Someone needs to maliciously comply, in advance, on all California government systems.

...what? This is a law demanding compliance from OS vendors. Whose compliance is it even demanding in government systems for them to be malicious about it?

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#478

Post by Dylan16807 »

adastra22 wrote: post #279
leptons wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a startup owner, if there has to be age verification, then I'm all for doing that at the OS level. As a human with privacy concerns, I'll continue using Linux.

Why do you think you will still be able to install Linux?

Whatever you're talking about there has effectively nothing to do with this law.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#479

Post by Dylan16807 »

sunaookami wrote: post #145
SoftTalker wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents who are fed up with social media and tech companies taking no social responsibility. These companies have fewer ethics than a minimum-wage liquor store clerk when it comes to caring about the age of their users.

Parents are lazy and don't want to do what parents should do and cry to the state that they should do it.

This take makes no sense to me.

What parents should be doing is enabling age controls.

Which means those age control features need to exist.

So the state is making sure the features exist.

There's no verification. The headline is a lie. It's just an account setting that parents can use if they want to.

Re: A new California law says all operating systems need to have age verification

#480

Post by Aerroon »

fangpenlin wrote: post #67

There's an obvious theme with lawmakers in California—they pass laws to regulate things they have zero clue about, add them to their achievement page, cheer for themselves, and declare, "There! I've made the world a better place." There are just too many examples. For instance: - Microstamping requirements for guns—printing a unique barcode on every bullet casing (Glock gen3 cannot be retired, thus, the auto-mode swi…

I'm starting to get more and more behind the idea that maybe lawmakers need to be legally accountable for bad laws that they make.
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