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US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

reuters.com

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Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#471

Post by DANmode »

tripzilch wrote: post #462
pyuser583 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve read the GDPR has zero impacts on national security/law enforcement. It applies weakly to other state functions. I’ve also seen cases where GDPR is used against religious groups that have a strong religious justification for keeping lists of believers. Think Orthodox Jews and the Catholic Church, which regard family trees and baptismal certificates as semi-sacred. And kept on paper or scrolls. Not sure what to t…

The reason why we're not keeping lists of which people believe what religion, is because such lists were extremely useful to the nazis in WW2 when exterminating Jewish people. > Think Orthodox Jews Pretty sure they would remember why this is the case. > Regulating a sacred scroll like a database table seems wrong. There is actually no perceivable or material difference between something that is considered "sacred" an…

Tracking you in what ways?

Thanks.

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#472

Post by WarmWash »

corford wrote: post #439
WarmWash wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A huge chunk of those trillions come from European and other non-US sources. Well that's even worse isn't it. Europe invents something only for the US to produce it and then sell it back to Europe? Maybe it's time for Europeans to come home from their 30 year post cold war vacation. 60-70 hour work weeks, performance based job security, 15 days vacation (that you work during anyway), corporate tax exemptions funded…

>But you probably recoiled in horror reading that. Not really. I laughed at your cartoonish notion of Europe (and the idea that the US way is somehow the only or most desirable goal). For a more balanced understanding of US vs EU relative performance and QoL, this is a helpful, recent analysis: https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/europe-v-america-whos-rea... If the EU just continues to slowly, deliberately continue on…

I'm not sure you understand what that krugman post is saying, but it's not saying that Europe has actually been keeping up with the US. It also doesn't refute anything I said, and infact actually supports it.

It's saying that prices of goods in Europe have remained in line with income that people get, people are happy, so who cares about anything else? And then there is short sentence at the end about tech is bad because it makes billionaires, so Europe need not worry.

Which all basically goes back to my point about Europe being happy with the status quo (the 30 yr post cold war vacation), and unwilling to change. However, like Krugman doesn't mention at all in his post, the status quo includes immense American tech and Chinese hardware imports.

So if Europe wants to stand on it's own, it's going to need to do very antithetical things relative to the current culture, that will in the short term be very painful for Europeans, but in the long term will provide the stability and independence they need.

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#473

Post by mghackerlady »

DANmode wrote: post #421
mghackerlady wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, why would you not want cookie banners? I prefer being able to choose to opt out of them, even if it's annoying

Because the law probably should have mandated functionality-only cookies until I disclaim my right to privacy, such as when creating an account, or doing anything to provide consent besides loading the domain. Instead, we normalized breaking the site by covering 80% of it so the standard user clicks the first thing that brings the site back: Accept (giving me the 80 advertiser tracking cookies!!1!)

I'm sceptical the "functionality-only cookies" are what they say they are

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#474

Post by cowboylowrez »

cyanydeez wrote: post #427
cowboylowrez wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah but also realistically if you have the money you don't build a bunker, you build a pseudo military installation, and ex military is where you find your "handymen" to take care of "housekeeping." of course, your ex military pals should be consulted regarding real estate because even here its location location location.

But in the event of societal collapse, your ex military has zero that binds you to them. That's what's the fallacy. You need the rest of the trappings of modern society to keep wealthy in power.

you seem not to be doing much analysis here. thats fair, its not my job either lol

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#475

Post by DANmode »

gip wrote: post #423
CGamesPlay wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. Subpoenas, wiretapping, and other extrajudicial means can be stopped by legislation that bans them. You can't say in one breath that legislation that enables it (Patriot Act) cannot be undone by more legislation. There are many hurdles required to produce the required legislation, which may not even be broadly supported by the public, but it isn't correct to say "no amount of legislation can stop exis…

That would require to repeal the FISA and the Patriot acts. That won't happen. More fundamentally, however, the US constitution only protects Americans and American companies. Europeans would be foolish to trust the US with their data given this lack of basic protection and oversight.

> That won't happen.

Never say never.

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#476

Post by DANmode »

inigyou wrote: post #454
philipallstar wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to savings in Zimbabwe when they printed trillions of dollars? Did that do anything to what those savings would buy?

It is possible that curves are not linear. That is, it is possible that doing 1 of a thing is good, while doing 1000000 of a thing is bad. Your argument is the same as "you say you need water to survive? But what happens if you're trapped in a giant fish tank with no air pocket?" It is not a good argument.

> It is possible that curves are not linear.

Only reason this one wouldn’t be, is human sentiment being nonlinear.

You’re asking to be trapped in a small fish tank with no air pocket…still not a good argument.

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#477

Post by halJordan »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #323
bradley13 wrote: post #187

It's not even just data stored on US servers. According to the CLOUD Act, any data stored by a US company, regardless of location, can be demanded by any authority in the US. No sovereign nation should use US companies for data storage or processing. Period. The attempts to shift to open source or non-US services are inevitably hobbled by US companies lobbying (read: bribing) politicians.

> No sovereign nation should use US companies for data storage or processing. Period. So what is Europe supposed to do just stop pretending to be sovereign?

What? They're supposed to arrest people that break their laws. Why is this a hard step to think of?

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#478

Post by Vasbarlog »

inigyou wrote: post #448
Vasbarlog wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe...where they throw people in jail for social media posts? What do you think when they find out peoples' private convos? When did this happen?

Lucy Connolly was arrested in the UK for calling for terrorists to burn down a hotel full of migrants with the migrants inside, on Twitter.

Good! Is anyone speaking against that?

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#479

Post by inigyou »

DANmode wrote: post #476
inigyou wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible that curves are not linear. That is, it is possible that doing 1 of a thing is good, while doing 1000000 of a thing is bad. Your argument is the same as "you say you need water to survive? But what happens if you're trapped in a giant fish tank with no air pocket?" It is not a good argument.

> It is possible that curves are not linear. Only reason this one wouldn’t be, is human sentiment being nonlinear. You’re asking to be trapped in a small fish tank with no air pocket…still not a good argument.

You're absolutely right - human sentiment is always linear. If somebody likes eating pizza, they love being forcefed pizza 24/7 until their stomach explodes.

Not.

Re: US orders diplomats to fight data sovereignty initiatives

#480

Post by llm_nerd »

inigyou wrote: post #444
surgical_fire wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But going digitally sovereign will cost Europe tens of billions of euros. That will be spent in Europe, improving the economy of member states. Certainly much better than just sending that money to the US.

I don't think governments care where money is spent, only how much. Growing the economy by spending more is not really a thing governments aim for.

Stimulus spending is very much a thing. An extremely well known thing. American governments of every lean have pushed "buy American" policies for that reason.

Most other countries didn't just because it eventually evened out in the end. But with the US being an adversarial nation, everyone should redouble efforts to ensure not a penny supports that autocracy.

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