Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

docs.hetzner.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 662 posts

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#471

Post by rodrigodlu »

seertaak wrote: post #454
NikolaNovak wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... They're not wrong. That IS the market. Unrestricted, gloriously free market with its historically predictable outcomes - yay! That's not where the interesting discussion is. The interesting discussion is with the notion that free unregulated markets are universally good and will naturally lead to positive outcomes because... I don't know, I'm personally not religious, but somebody here will help me :-).

Sorry, when you say "gloriously free market", do you mean whatever it takes EU, helicopter money (or, rewinding a decade, Greenspan put ) US, or factory of the world China? :) My point is that it's not a real market economy if the risk premium -- and in China's case, the exchange rate -- is rigged. And it has been, since the 90s. EDIT: For clarity, I'm agreeing with you, since you were being facetious.

What about even earlier? Like the petrodollar?

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#472

Post by seanmcdirmid »

piva00 wrote: post #298
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the CPC (the correct acronym) subsidize cheap GPUs to America? You won’t see huawei GPUs here until their yields are decent enough to make it profitable.

CCP is the common one even though not the official, either use is fine and understandable (as you've understood it clearly). What do you mean? I'm talking about the CCP funding projects to increase yield for their fabs, not buying GPUs from NVidia...

It’s CPC because the official name of the party is Communist Party, China, a hold over to when China was more aligned with the soviets before Stalin died. As long as they subsidize GPUs for domestic use, it makes sense. But we won’t see them for export until their yields are good enough to make them profitable. They will also have a hard time scaling with bad yields, leading to a continued need for GPU imports to meet demand.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#473

Post by seanmcdirmid »

alt227 wrote: post #341
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the CPC (the correct acronym) subsidize cheap GPUs to America? You won’t see huawei GPUs here until their yields are decent enough to make it profitable.

> CPC (the correct acronym) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party Read the very first sentence.

Yes, the western world has basically told the Chinese what the proper acronym should be even if the Chinese disagree.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#474

Post by 15155 »

Betelbuddy wrote: post #397
daxaxelrod wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks modern data centers don’t use recirculated water can safely have their opinions summarily discarded.

Data centers consume...a lot...of water by design, recirculated water, does not means no water consumption. Water must be continuously added in evaporative cooling systems used by many data centers. [1] - Cooling towers reject heat through evaporation, which uses water, not just recirculates it. Evaporated water is lost to the atmosphere and must be replaced with "make-up" water. As a result, recirculating cooling lo…

..so outlaw cooling towers and use dry coolers.. what?

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#475

Post by 15155 »

estimator7292 wrote: post #455
daxaxelrod wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks modern data centers don’t use recirculated water can safely have their opinions summarily discarded.

Please google "datacenter evaporative cooling" and then re-evaluate

Whoa: is this the only possible form of cooling?

What if there were a cooler that somehow didn't evaporate water, you might even call it a "dry cooler" - that would be a sweet invention. This might even be required in areas where adiabatic cooling isn't effective (humid climates)!

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#476

Post by Silhouette »

infecto wrote: post #262
Silhouette wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we're seeing is the natural conclusion of VC distortion in a market. There is so much money being pumped into AI speculatively now that it's hurting normal and sustainable businesses in other parts of the economy. The solution might have to be mandatory rationing of some kind to avoid a situation where only a handful of AI giants are able to buy essential components. We can't just throw the rest of the economy u…

I think that’s a massive stretch. What we are seeing is a new frontier in tech that nobody knows where it will land yet. Hyperscalers see a future where if they don’t build now that they might be left behind. Absolutely VC money is flowing around but I think it’s unclear where the cards fall yet. Not sure what you would regulate here. I hate the tripe that America and China are at war but I do think it’s not a great…

It's not much of a stretch at all. There are already normal businesses that can't buy normal equipment at normal prices (or can't buy it at all) right now because the supply chain has been redirected to a small number of businesses that can only afford to drain the pipeline like that because of the astronomical scale of speculative investment they've received. Similarly there already individuals who can't buy normal equipment for their own use.

This situation is harmful both economically and for basic quality of life. It is rational - and probably now necessary - for governments to intervene to counter the market distortion and ensure the continued availability of normal products to everyone else.

I am fully aware that the West regulating here would potentially undermine the VC investment model that these big tech firms are relying on. I have no problem with this. Business entities are legal fictions that we allow to exist for the benefit of real people. If the behaviour of those entities is harmful to real people - and I don't think anyone can credibly claim otherwise in this case - then it's time to change the rules they operate under.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#477

Post by seertaak »

rodrigodlu wrote: post #471
seertaak wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, when you say "gloriously free market", do you mean whatever it takes EU, helicopter money (or, rewinding a decade, Greenspan put ) US, or factory of the world China? :) My point is that it's not a real market economy if the risk premium -- and in China's case, the exchange rate -- is rigged. And it has been, since the 90s. EDIT: For clarity, I'm agreeing with you, since you were being facetious.

What about even earlier? Like the petrodollar?

Absolutely! -- and we could play this game for a long time ;)

The right way of looking at it is, there was tiny little interlude of something vaguely approaching the free market -- back when Volcker was in charge.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#478

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

antonyh wrote: post #113
Havoc wrote: post #90

This comes after OVH sent emails with really spicy increases too. Like north of 50

I got no such email, was this for VPS or dedicated servers?

Same, still 5€/month for my (now discontinued, apparently) VLE-2 box. Current VPS line-up (Intel based, though) is still quite cheap: https://www.ovhcloud.com/fr/vps/

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#479

Post by pyrale »

rm30 wrote: post #290

Western memory manufacturers decided to chase the AI bubble, abandoning the consumer and low-requirement markets entirely. Chinese manufacturers are now capturing that entire segment with full vertical integration. When this bubble stabilizes, because it will (it's not going to grow to infinite), Western companies won't recapture those markets. They've already ceded competitive advantage for the next decade. This is…

You're speaking like Hetzner is raising prices to fund Nvidia-laden datacenters, while in fact they're mostly providing cheap servers and their growth is mostly happening because of US admin's insanity.

Memory is going up for everyone, dude. And the people moving to Hetzner aren't exiting US clouds to leave for chinese ones.

Re: Hetzner Prices increase 30-40%

#480

Post by Silhouette »

embedding-shape wrote: post #288
gck1 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a different kind of shortage though. Previous ones were cyclical and caused by supply/demand mismatches or natural disasters. This one is structural. The manufacturers are actively choosing to prioritize AI because the margins are dramatically higher, and AI market has virtually unlimited money right now. > eventually washed over Eventually is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Several years of constrained su…

> caused by supply/demand mismatches How is that different from today? The scale might be different, but it's quite literally a "supply/demand mismatch" right now. I don't think what we're seeing today can be described as "structural", at least because it's way too short to make such proclamations today, if it ossifies, then yeah maybe I'd agree with you, it's become structural. > Several years of constrained supply…

The "scale might be different" matters quite a lot in this case. We're not just talking about demand slightly outpacing supply and resulting in prices going up 10%. We're talking about large parts of our societies and economies no longer having reliable access to technology that we now depend on for normal operation.

We wouldn't allow any amount of investor money to buy out essential utilities and then exploit their natural monopolies to charge the public 10x as much for access to water or electricity.

We wouldn't allow any amount of investor money to buy out all the companies that maintain our roads or rail networks and then charge 10x the established prices for maintaining that infrastructure.

We wouldn't allow any amount of investor money to buy out all the phone networks and then deny people access to communication because they didn't pay some exorbitant protection fee.

No-one thinks regulation of these markets and interference with these kinds of corporate transactions is a crazy idea. Why do so many people here apparently think we should let the funny money funded AI giants distort the entire global tech supply chain in the hope that their silly valuations won't come crashing down for a bit longer?

We can't afford to wait "several years" to see whether the invisible hand will fix the problem. The markets have already allowed this situation to develop over a period of several years. The damage is too severe and it's happening right now and it's getting worse. Governments need to start swinging the regulatory axe now.

Post reply on HN