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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#471

Post by johnisgood »

parineum wrote: post #395
happymellon wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work with a Kevin and a Mohammed. Whenever we travelled to offsite offices Mohammed 100% of the time was picked for bag check, while Kevin was not picked once. Mohammed was white, and Kevin was black. It was completely racist, and never random.

Not defending the practice but the Mohammed thing has a possible origin that isn't directly racist. The common names among Muslims and their propensity to appear on various watch lists lead to a lot of false alarms on those with those names. It may be a racist result but there is a pretty reasonable and understandable reason it happens, ignoring the legality and morality of that kind of tracking as well.

I hope you extend this understanding to other patterns people recognize and act upon. :)

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#472

Post by dboreham »

bastawhiz wrote: post #265
asdf_snar wrote: post #261

I think I must be confused, but after reading many of the replies, I can't figure this out. Is the standard American perspective that one shouldn't have to show any form of identification to go through security, get on a plane, and travel anywhere within the United States? How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity?

We do have to show ID. But the federal government said it's not enough to use a normal state driver's license or passport. You need a special "Real ID" that's somehow allegedly better. Your old driver's license that you can pay for booze with, open a bank account with, and you know, drive with, isn't proof enough of who you are to ride on a plane. Edit: I should note that I have one. But lots of people don't, because…

Passport works. You don't need real ID. Its only purpose is to deal with states where the normal driver license issuing process isn't up to whatever standards the feds dictate.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#473

Post by twoodfin »

fsckboy wrote: post #301
caseysoftware wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the TSA cannot force you to prove it - after all, they're not medical personnel to evaluate it and not willing to risk your injury - whether someone lies becomes irrelevant.

"i can't raise my arms over my head" doesn't contain the word "medically". could be religious reasons, or simply personal superstition.

Federal judges just love this kind of language lawyering.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#474

Post by dboreham »

toast0 wrote: post #373
asdf_snar wrote: post #261

I think I must be confused, but after reading many of the replies, I can't figure this out. Is the standard American perspective that one shouldn't have to show any form of identification to go through security, get on a plane, and travel anywhere within the United States? How does anyone associate your ticket to your identity?

My American perspective is unless I'm participating in an activity that definitely requires carrying and presenting ID, I don't need to. Driving is such an activity. Transiting national borders as well. Maybe opening a bank account, but really it should be up to the bank if they want to see my ID. If I'm travelling but not operating the vehicle, why should I need to carry and present ID? I'm pragmatic, and it's conve…

You don't need to carry ID/license to operate a vehicle. People (including I'm sure some cops) think you do but you only have to possess the license and present it to the cops if asked. Presenting can include going home to retrieve it from your dresser drawer. The US isn't (or wasn't) a "show me your papers" country.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#475

Post by fyrn_ »

dzogchen wrote: post #464

Fun fact, I rarely have to show my ID when flying in the EU. But what I don’t understand is why so many people don’t have an ID in the US. Seems like one of the very basic service governments should provide.

It's a product of the lingering sentiment of a country founded on not wanting to pay taxes, mixed with (often warrented) mistrust of the government and truely insane immigration laws all jumbled togeather. Yeah, we would be better of with something universal and more robust then the toilet paper they print social security numbers on, but we got the system it was possible to pass through congress.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#476

Post by [deleted] »

hackyhacky wrote: post #241
sndean wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, dislike walking far. Here’s how I faked my way into a handicap parking tag.

> I, too, dislike walking far. Here’s how I faked my way into a handicap parking tag. Cute analogy, but. Handicap parking tags provide value to those who need them. Depriving them of parking makes their lives harder. On the other hand, TSA is pure theater, as TFA makes clear. Avoiding this needless ritual saves time for the passenger, for the TSA officers, even for the other passengers, and does not increase risk at…

[deleted]

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#477

Post by burnt-resistor »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #121
Izikiel43 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, because the federal government can't assume that everyone has an ID, since they don't issue a universal ID. I'm from a 3rd world country and we have a national id, the usa is weird in the strangest things.

It's a deep-seated cultural paranoia that the federal government is out to get us. Initially, the US tried to be a confederation like the EU or Canada, but it turned out that we needed slightly more federal power than that to stay as a unified country. But the tension between "loose coalition of independent states" and "unified government that grants some powers to the states" is a pretty fundamental theme throughout…

> the federal government is out to get us

Stop with the gaslighting. It's not paranoia when it's happening plain as day with an authoritarian regime arresting journalists, pointing guns at civilians, threatening retaliation by placing on lists for 1a-protected activities, and arresting people for not being white without a judicial warrant.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#478

Post by lazide »

keeda wrote: post #358
caseysoftware wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So it was never about security at all then, was it? Never was. I flew every other week prior to covid and haven't once been through the scanners. For the first ~6 years, I opted out and got pat down over and over again. Then I realized I could even skip that. Now at the checkpoint, I stand at the metal detector. When they wave me to the scanner, I say "I can't raise my arms over my head." They wave me through the m…

> The TSA was NEVER about security. It was designed as a jobs program and make it look like we were doing something for security. To a great extent, it is security, even if it's mostly security theater, in the sense that it is security theater that people want . A large portion, maybe even the majority, of travelers simply won't feel safe without it. I've had and overheard multiple conversations at the airport where…

The situation re: psychological safety becomes very apparent when you mention to foreigners how often guns accidentally make it through TSA in peoples bags - and get discovered on screening on the return flight.

Saucers for eyes, saucers! Hah

The reality is that screening raises the bar enough that most casuals won’t risk it unless they’re crazy, which is worth something, and makes most people feel comfy, which is also worth something.

It’s like using a master lock on your shed, or a cheap kwikset on your front door.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#479

Post by burnt-resistor »

jamboca wrote: post #401

bankroll for president's private militia aka ice

Don't forget federal sales taxes in the form of tariffs.

And also the $8 trillion he added to the national debt push interest payments to be more than the previous defense budget or Medicare.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#480

Post by lazide »

chias wrote: post #430
figassis wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mostly security, but not to residents of the country. Those can enforce their rights. In my country, I can argue with airport security, and win. Foreigners can’t, so they follow whatever rules. A few times when landing in the US, security was extremely rude, I think just looking for an excuse (things like throwing your laptop a few feet away, while staring at you, etc). You take it bc you’re not home, and the c…

I tried to opt out in the UK last time I was there a few years ago. The agent looked at me, confused, and said "so... you don't want to get on the plane?". She told me the the UK didn't allow opt-outs. This was the only time I've gone through the machine since they were introduced.

Airport security in India is particularly infuriating on this point. Everything gets scanned and fed through over and over again, and everyone gets wanded and patted down over and over again, with maximum ‘fuck you’ to any passenger that dares to question the sanity of restarting your entire screening - because you left your belt on.

Meanwhile, I haven’t even had a western airports metal detector even fire on the same belt in years.

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