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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#471
post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

Being a customer for years, I have to politely disagree. Design is obviously a totally personal matter of taste, but as they have made many iconic shapes, apparently they're in the broad opinion not too bad at it. The main difference is driving. I have driven many cars in my life, from very cheap to very expensive. For me personally, Porsche is in my opinion comparable to using a Mac - they're one of the few who "get…

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing I was interested in trying out a Porsche. Do the oil changes and other maintenance items cost significantly more than other makers?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a market opportunity for kerb-side, low speed, charging points. Not to mention parking garages for daytime parking at work. Not to mention mall parking lots. The garage is an obvious starting point, because your car spends a lot of time there, but there are lots of opportunities elsewhere. Once upon a time 44 million households didn't have electricity. Things change.

I have no garage and work from home. So no workplace to charge. So now you’ve added another thing I have to worry about - finding charging somewhere along my 10 minute errand route? EVs are a bad solution to a problem I don’t have. Hybrids are much better. For the small amount of driving I do, driving my commuter ICE car with a tiny, 35-mpg 4 cylinder engine is fine… why are the EV cultists so convinced their way is…

>EV's produce 38% less tire & brake dust than ICE vehicles.

>non-exhaust emissions on an ICE vehicle are roughly 1/3 brake dust, 1/3 tire dust and 1/3 road dust. EV's have almost no impact on road dust, 83% lest brake dust and 20% more tire dust.

https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/another-way-electric-cars-cle...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46219820

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#473
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?

Europe is stuck with American tech with no real alternatives in the horizon. Europe doing an independent stack is just wishful thinking.

The alternative is China.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#474
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> jumping through phone app hoops The very idea you effectively need a mobile phone to charge your car is mind boggling. The mess of proprietary charging networks and registrations is needless complexity that puts people off hiring (and ownership) of EVs.

I have little RFID cards from 2 charging companies that I can tap to their chargers to charge. Also, many chargers support tapping a credit card on them to charge.

Your comment is proving my point!

(Proprietary networks are a mess, and ordinary debit/credit card payments for EV charging are far from universal)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no garage and work from home. So no workplace to charge. So now you’ve added another thing I have to worry about - finding charging somewhere along my 10 minute errand route? EVs are a bad solution to a problem I don’t have. Hybrids are much better. For the small amount of driving I do, driving my commuter ICE car with a tiny, 35-mpg 4 cylinder engine is fine… why are the EV cultists so convinced their way is…

>EV's produce 38% less tire & brake dust than ICE vehicles. >non-exhaust emissions on an ICE vehicle are roughly 1/3 brake dust, 1/3 tire dust and 1/3 road dust. EV's have almost no impact on road dust, 83% lest brake dust and 20% more tire dust. https://electrek.co/2025/05/27/another-way-electric-cars-cle... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46219820

> though much of this is attributable to a vehicle mix that is more focused on larger vehicles, as it seems like every EV manufacturer is making huge SUVs and few are making small cars

My point exactly. Your new EV has more tire dust (and probably more brake dust) than my old, smaller ICE.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#476
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children tend to move around.

Most people are just crap at parenting. Whenever I am moving a car backward to park or unpark my car, I ask everybody to stand at a specific place where I see them, regardless if they are adults or kids. So yes everyone is right, yes a lots of people are just bad at taking basic safety measures but backup cameras are still a necessity because this will not change, it is even worse with people doomscrolling their smar…

or reversing in public where random kids could end up behind you I guess

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one place where European automakers are going to have to adapt or die out. Even if they can get the motors, batteries, and charging systems to a competitive level, Chinese manufacturers include most """luxury""" features by default. European manufacturers go the other way, including the hardware but locking the entire thing behind microtransactions or "upgrades". They're going to need to cover the los…

This is mostly an issue with German cars. A lower-end Skoda comes standard with features that would cost half the car's price if optioned on a Mercedes.

Still, browsing the Skoda website, I see Skoda offering lane assist for 450 to 750 euros (one is a "plus" version for some reason), a "headlight assist" for 990 euros, and CarPlay/Android Auto support for 450 euros. 250 euros for heated seats, 350 for adding a phone charging port, 800 euros for satnav, 150 euros for a plastic tray between the seats. That is, of course, after selecting one of six "editions" of the same model that all come with different extras for a markup of several thousand.

The equivalent BYD comes with all of that included for free in the cheapest SKU. The biggest differentiator is that the heated seats are only available in BYD's most luxury version of the car, but the most luxury option is still 22% cheaper than the Skoda with equivalent options. BYD does charge more for a lick of paint, to be fair, so if you're looking for a specific colour you may pay a little more.

Perhaps BMW and Mercedes are worse at this, but the 150 euro plastic tray with cup holder says everything that needs to be said.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

When your ICE vehicle breaks down on the highway, you can get it towed and repaired at any half-decent car mechanic. If you don't like his cost quote or his service/repairs, you can get your car taken elsewhere (usually the mechanic can get it running in a short while, unless it is a major breakage problem) for a second opinion or service/repairs.

When your EV breaks down, you won't even bother to get it towed, because the only ones who can repair it are the (very expensive) showroom of the car manufacturer you bought it from, or their authorized (and very expensive) service center (and those will be very few of them in a city, and forget about getting such EV Service centers in the suburbs or rural areas). And you have to accept whatever cost quote and dependencies (additional upgrades to "fix" the "issue") he specifies. Good luck trying to figure it out or getting a second opinion, unless you have an EV industry expert as a friend or family member.

The EVs are white elephants. They look good while they last. But once they start breaking down, you will be paying through your nose just to keep it ticking along.

Whereas that 30-years old ICE car of your grandpa? That rustbucket can be repaired (eventually to full functionality and best looks) in your home garage by you and family/friends if you have the knowhow (or want to learn it), and can afford the time and spare parts cost (which are affordable for middle class, except if it is a vintage car or sports/luxury car).

EVs will be the deathknell for the hobbyist market and small-scale auto shops.

And don't even get me started on how easily and dangerously EVs can be hacked/hijacked by hackers.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people in the future will visit the US for the dieselpunk nostalgia, the same way people like seeing classic cars in Cuba.

Feels bad faith to shit on people from your ivory tower, just because they can't afford to ditch their reliable beaters and buy a new car. Have you seen wage growth vs car price increases lately? Not everyone is on a remote six figure US tech job. Try to view and judge things from outside your bubble as well. I'd also dump my ol reliable ICE car that's now probably worth less than a fancy electric bicycle, if someone…

Like me, you're not buying new cars on that budget anyway. 6 years ago when my ICE car became unreliable I bought a used Chevy Bolt for less than $20k. They're closer to $10k now. Plenty of range.

People aren't being asked to dump their current reliable vehicles.

What we want is for people to think about EVs when it's time to replace them.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly doubt any current car will stand longevity of those cars. The maintenance entry cost of anything with integrated electronic is just several order of magnitude in complexity.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

> Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars ...

Define "modern". My 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera is now 38 years old (and I own it since 1999, it used to be my daily back in the day). It's considered one of the most reliable car ever built. Mine is sure still running strong and, well, we have to wait until year 2064 (I'll be long gone I guess) to see if any modern car proves as reliable.

Also: there are still Porsche 356 from the 1950s on the road. They do rust a lot (body had no treatment against rust back then) but many are still in working condition. Mechanic and bodyshops know how to keep these on the road. If after 38 years my 911 Carrera is still on the road, I'm sure the knowledge is out there to keep it on the road for another 38 years.

Do we know if all these Chinese cars sold today, say in the EU, shall still be usable in 38 years? What about the batteries? Shall there be compatible ones? Batteries that fail every x years and needs replacement is already quite a stretch from a "reliability" point of view compared to a 38 years cars whose engine has never been opened.

Thing is: my 911 is mostly analog except for the electronic fuel injection. A good old Bosch part.

Funnily enough that part is a typical part that fails. That and all the little sensors (but thankfully there aren't too many). But they're easy fix.

I think there's that sweet spot where cars were still simple enough and yet had already electronic fuel injection: that made for some extremely reliable cars.

Note that I don't use it as a daily car anymore: I now drive maybe only about 1000 miles / 1500 km a year with my old Porsche. But I totally could use it everyday: the reason I don't is not reliability, it's that an old Porsche from the 80s is a real gas guzzler (not as much as an american V8 from the 80s but still a gas guzzler). One of my favorite thing is the relatively short drive to go pick my kid at school then go groceries shopping. Every time I use I'm thinking "it's crazy to think it could be my daily".

And when my regular car has to go to the garage/maintenance, the good old trusty 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera gets to be a daily for a while.

38 years old.

My modern car has sensors for everything. It's very convenient to know what is the problem, but there are still problems. In seven years it's been something like seven times to the garage (in addition to maintenance / tires) for a variety of problems. Under warranty but still.

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