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The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

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Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#471

Post by guax »

fph wrote: post #166
finaard wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you can still do banking on your PC? I stopped using banking apps on my phones a few years ago - they got more and more annoying, and I don't buy into the "the device is secure and should be used as a trust token". So I'm now back to banking only on my computer, with a hardware token for TAN generation.

Hardware tokens are not allowed in Europe to authorize certain operations such as bank transfers: you need a device that can show the operation you are about to authorize ("enter 123456 to confirm your payment of 99.99 € to Pornhub"). And that essentially means using a phone.

I am in europe and my bank issued me a hardware token I still need to use from time to time.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#472

Post by gonzalohm »

ploxiln wrote: post #365
ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

You can just use your bank's website. No need for two phones

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#473

Post by sneak »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #461
pie_flavor wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when you don't do this, people get scammed out of money. If there is a series of buttons you can press to circumvent the anti-scam measures, then the scammers simply walk you through pressing those buttons. If you cover them in giant warning labels the scammers simply add explanations into their patter. The buttons must physically not exist, for gullible people to not get scammed out of money. The next respon…

> Because when you don't do this, people get scammed out of money. I don't care. Society doesn't exist to keep people safe from their own bad decisions.

I agree with you, but many do not. Lots of people think that is one of the main functions of society.

Regardless, it isn’t a law that you have to buy an iPhone.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#474

Post by aembleton »

gonzalohm wrote: post #472
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

You can just use your bank's website. No need for two phones

If your bank has a website.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#475

Post by skibidithink »

gonzalohm wrote: post #472
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

You can just use your bank's website. No need for two phones

Until they decide that they only support 2FA by app push notification.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#476

Post by barnabee »

jmyeet wrote: post #455
ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

[flagged]

There's a difference between many people preferring not to have control over the device they own and it being illegal to have such control.

Yes, absolutely, most people would be better off not having that control and most of those people are also fine with not having it.

But everyone, for better or worse, has the right to demand that control if they want it.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#477

Post by gcuvyvtvv6 »

gonzalohm wrote: post #472
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

You can just use your bank's website. No need for two phones

My bank turned their website off. Mobile app only now.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#478

Post by fsflover »

aembleton wrote: post #474
gonzalohm wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just use your bank's website. No need for two phones

If your bank has a website.

If not, you should seriously consider switching banks (while you can). I suspect that such banks do not take security seriously: Giving control over your phone to Apple/Google is not security.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#479

Post by nine_k »

lxgr wrote: post #391
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

> everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 No, the much more secure while at the same time liberty-preserving way to do this are heavily sandboxed secure enclaves with attestation, or even better standalone tamper-proof devices capable of attestation. Like the ones practically every bank customer already has in their wallet, and for which most phones have a built-in reader these days...…

I don't see how a separate dedicated piece of hardware is less secure. It has zero contact whatsoever with your other comm devices. It can be switched off when not needed, to prevent any chance of tracking you. Think of it as of an advanced yubikey.

It's not money-preserving though. You need an extra device, and an extra phone number. The separate phone number is another privacy-preserving feature though.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#480

Post by Springtime »

Havoc wrote: post #454
horsawlarway wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the fundamental problem: Trusted agents are useful. And I'm using legal meanings, not technical meanings here - so a "trusted agent" is someone or something that is legally acting on your behalf, to perform actions as though you were performing them. The whole fucking promise of "general purpose computing" is that citizens should be able to delegate repetitive and tedious tasks to a computer. And they should h…

I get what you're saying about general purpose computing. I do a bunch of selfhosting flavoured stuff so we're on the same wavelength in a way. ...but I don't think that's the lens legislators look through here. I think it's more like "Last week and upset constituent lost all their savings". This politician cares more about protecting gullible constituent than a hypothetical stallman-esque freedom argument. Not sayin…

In the given scenario though it's less likely such a user would be using a rooted or replacement OS. It's an involved process to do this in the first place.

Ie: the much larger percent of users affected by this news would already be more technically savvy and one would assume be less susceptible to known scams.

To your parent point though, sideloading apps per se OTOH is something most Android installs can do without rooting or a replacement OS. Google is already rolling out developer verification requirements for sideloaded apps on GMS Android installs (most devices) to mitigate impact of malicious apps, so there is already action being taken for regular users.

One could imagine other reasons Vietnam may want to dissuade more tech savvy users from running AOSP-based installs (such as GrapheneOS, which is known to be robust against Cellebrite) and using banking is a decent place to start.

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