Beyond Apple, I think the state of laptop quality is absolutely abysmal. I haven’t tried Framework, but it is disappointing to hear their products suffer many of the same issues as other PC builders. I guess there just isn’t a market.
I'm returning my Framework 16
471–480 of 621 posts
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
The modules are just inset usb-c dongles. Handy that you can have them fully encased but there’s nothing really limiting any other laptop on this front. You just use an external dongle and have the same flexibility. Maybe some people really want the enclosed module so they have fewer things to carry, but that’s a pretty small advantage that I’m not sure many people will value. I could get something like this ( https:…
>but there’s nothing really limiting any other laptop on this front. You just use an external dongle and have the same flexibility. Yeah, but thars another part to lose. I have tons of dongles and expansion bays, and have lost half a ton of them to the tides of school, work, travel, and carelessness. Most lost, some break because it's a huge portrusion out of your core machine. A few borrowed and never returned. One…
Ah weird the link didn’t work. It looks like their site overrides the url that is set for link sharing.
This one should work, copied it from the address bar instead.
https://satechi.net/products/pro-hub-slim?variant=4019950983...
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Reliable machines rarely need repairs outside of owner mistreatment, and most people I know who are technically capable enough to care about upgrading generally do it maybe once every 4-6 years, by which point hardware has usually advanced far enough that buying a new laptop is easy t…
"The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody." That is entirely irrelevant. The product does what it says on the tin. If you don't value that because "repairability isn't a frequent need" then you don't value that (and the reason doesn't matter). If you* don't value that, then why did you read the tin, buy the thing, and then co…
As others have pointed out, a lot of us would very much like to buy a Framework laptop but as it is we can’t make it make sense. We’ll be customers if Framework can figure out how to patch up their shortcomings, and by expressing that sentiment hopefully they’re encouraged to try to do that.
We value reparability and upgradability and are willing to pay for it all else being roughly equal.
It’s like for the same price, being given a choice between a hybrid car that’s quiet on the road and gets 45 MPG fuel economy with great torque and responsiveness but needs to be taken to the dealer to service and a car that’s easy to self service but has an annoying rattle at highway speeds, gets 15 MPG, and has a 4-speed automatic transmission. Both technically do the job, but you’d be hard pressed to find people who’d choose the latter over the former.
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Point taken, I totally see how brighter screens must be a boon for people who actually bring their laptop outdoors. My personal needs are way smaller so I missed that part completely (on contrast IDK, I recently had a Surface Pro 8 next to a MBP 4 and it didn't strike me, but I might not be sensible enough to that) > 1366x768 We've had HDPI for a decade now, that's truly awful. > ports Agreed, people needing more tha…
Not necessarily just outdoors, but to any well lit environment.
Including indoors in rooms with large windows that face east, south, or west! This describes a lot of office buildings, as well as my bedroom in a circa-2005 cheaply built mass development home too. On sunny days, it’s brightly naturally lit for basically half the day, and dim displays can struggle in that environment.
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#475Just get a linux desktop and the cheapest MacBook Air and remote into Linux from the Mac when you need to go portable.
There's the world as you want it to be, and the world as it is. The laptop the author wants just doesn't exist.
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#476I don't recommended getting a Framework to anyone who isn't interested specifically in repairability, as it has its quirks and doesn't feel like something which should cost this much. I've broken something in every laptop I've ever owned (+the butterfly keyboard in a company 2019 MBP), so to me it's an important feature. That being said my previous device - a "gaming" laptop - was essentially e-waste two years after…
The thing about macbooks is: - dead silence - unbelievably good battery life - tank sturdiness - great performance - amazing screen - amazing speakers - god-tier trackpad - repairability in a sense you’ll always find parts (albeit not cheap) and someone to service it — It is basically uncontested in a laptop space. I would only consider windows / linux on a desktop pc
The only downside is that you have to run macOS
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, we hand down our MacBooks in the family and our old 2018 MacBook Airs are still in daily use without any reliability issues AFAIK. Zero user repairability.
I had an old MacBook Air that I ran until it eventually lost battery function and new software just wouldn’t run well on such old hardware, and I stopped getting updates for the OS which meant apps slowly became incompatible. Loved that machine. 10+ years of use from the best laptop I ever had. I would’ve bought a new one when I eventually gave up on it, but the Apple of 2025 is worlds apart from the Apple of 2012. E…
You’re describing the Apple of 2018.
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#478My desktop PC has been constantly evolving for about 15 years now, literally the ship of Theseus. Currently, following the latest upgrade in September, it's an absolute powerhouse.
During the same time, I burned through four laptops (for travel purposes), all of which were mostly weak, with a maximum of 16 GB RAM, no real GPUs, and 14"-15" screens, expensive, and had poor resale value.
My next travel computer will be Framework 16.
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#479I bought an early framework 13. It cost a little more. I’ve since upgraded the main board to get a faster/newer experience. The overall cost has been less than 2 laptops. Some of this depends if you’re playing the long game
On the other hand, if you'd bought two laptops... you'd have another laptop.
While that is true, it's not like I can use two laptops at once
Re: I'm returning my Framework 16
#480I appreciate the authors thoughtful review here, but I can’t help but be frustrated by the constant lack of understanding of the core value proposition of framework both in this post and in many comments here on hn. Frequently the author brings up that for 2,000 euros they expect a premium experience, but no where is there an evaluation of the value granted by upgradability and repeatability of the machine, and only…
I own a Framework 13. It is one of the worst machines I've ever owned. I am not misunderstanding the value proposition. For the amount of money I paid I expect a machine that sleeps when I close the lid, does not run out of battery when sleeping in a day and a half, has decent battery life with mixed use (with the upgraded battery), has speakers that aren't actual garbage (with the upgraded speakers), and sells an expansion storage module marketed as capable to run an OS that actually runs an OS without randomly turning off because of power draw issues.
To top that all off, at one point (I don't know if he's still employed) Framework hired a dedicated Linux community person who gaslighted customers with actual issues telling them it was their fault.
If this was any other mainstream PC seller, people would rightfully dump on them all day long. Instead, we are treated to long apologia from people like yourself because of "the vision".