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Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

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Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#471

Post by kragen »

bccdee wrote: post #395
kragen wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I see it, someone who "listened to that feedback, swallowed their ego/pride" would include a note at the end of the post about the edits. Admitting you were wrong requires not erasing the evidence of what you said. (He did post a kind of vague apology in https://ziggit.dev/t/migrating-from-github-to-codeberg-zig-p... , but it's ambiguous enough that anyone who was offended is free to read it as either retracting t…

> Admitting you were wrong requires not erasing the evidence of what you said. I don't think there's really an obligation to announce to newcomers, "hey, an earlier version of this post was overly inflammatory." But you should be forthright about your mistake to people who confront you about it, which is what's happening in the forum thread you linked. I think this is all fine.

If those newcomers are following a link from someone who was commenting on the earlier version, I think there is.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#472

Post by CyberDildonics »

crystal_revenge wrote: post #422
CyberDildonics wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zig is the language that was intentionally made to fail and error out on windows carriage returns instead of parsing them like every language ever made. They made a version for windows and then made it not work with every windows text editor. Their answer was to 'get better text editors' or 'make a preprocessing program to strip out carriage returns' or 'don't use windows' (they had a windows executable). This is not…

In all seriousness, this comment really makes me want to try out Zig!

You want a language that releases a compiler on a specific platform then intentionally breaks it for everyone on something trivial just to troll and irritate them?

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#473

Post by [deleted] »

shevy-java wrote: post #409

The reason is a bit strange. To me it seems as if Zig is just very opinionated. Personally I think the decision to move to Codeberg was made independently of Microsoft being a problem. I don't dispute that Microsoft is a problem; I just don't see many great alternatives to github either. Gitlab consistently is worse for me as a user. I think the bigger problem is that these big megacorporations control so much. I fin…

[deleted]

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#474

Post by Rochus »

brushfoot wrote: post #139

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the…

The fact that three revisions were needed to tone down inflammatory language could raise questions about impulse control in leadership decisions (regularly prioritizing ideological positions over pragmatic stability). This is notable given that Zig has been in development since 2015 and remains at version 0.15.1 as of August 2025.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#476

Post by xanthor »

rkomorn wrote: post #464
xanthor wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes people need to be shocked awake. Reality is harsh, and gentle language doesn't change that.

I've spent time in restaurant kitchens around chefs that believed "some people need to be shocked awake". The people that got yelled at didn't do markedly better after getting yelled at, but they sure had a worse attitude towards their peers and chefs. None of the chefs I talked to about it had anything better than "that's how it was when I started in kitchens" as actual justification.

The methods for influencing results within an organization exist on a spectrum, and failing to adequately utilize the breadth of that spectrum is always counter-productive.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#477

Post by LexiMax »

radlad wrote: post #381
latexr wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seems like a possibly immature teenager. What makes you say that? Couldn’t it be an immature adult? > because they have a suspicion you might use AI Was that the reason? From what I remember (which could definitely be incomplete information) the complaint was that they were clearly using AI while claiming no AI had been used , stole code from another project while claiming it was their own, refused to add credit wh…

I just want to point out that even if you are correct, as a Zig outsider, none of this is obvious. The situation just looks bad.

The way these sorts of things look to outsiders depends on the set of facts that are presented to those outsiders.

Choosing to focus on the existence of drama and bullying without delving into the underlying reason why there was such a negative reaction in the first place is kind of part and parcel to that.

At best it's the removal of context necessary to understand the dynamics at play, at worst it's a lie of omission.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#478

Post by jcheng »

ryandrake wrote: post #449
chrisweekly wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the plight of a policy-maker who changes their stance on some issue. They may have changed their mind in light of new information, or evolved their position as a result of deeper reflection, personal experience, or maturation. Opponents will accuse them of "waffling" or "flip-flopping", indicating a lack of reliability or principles (if not straight-up bribery). Elected officials are responsible for expressi…

The demonization of "flip-flopping" is so stupid. Bro, I want my politicians to change their minds when new facts arise or when public sentiment changes. The last thing we need is more dogmatic my-way-or-the-highway politicians that refuse to change their minds about anything.

Reminds me of Stephen Colbert's roast of George W. Bush at the 2006 White House Correspondents' Dinner:

> The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#479

Post by culi »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #286
kachapopopow wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh wow I had a larger cluster than that since I was 20 more than half a decade ago, considering that the costs appear to be so low maybe I should also pop out few free services since at the moment I pay $600+ just on power costs alone for idle hardware on my personal cluster. If anyone has any ideas feel free to email me at: news.ycombinator.com.reassure132@passmail.net

Maybe you could reach out to the codeberg folks and loan them a server? Sounds like they could use all the help they can get.

Codeberg is a non-profit btw

You can donate here: https://donate.codeberg.org/

Setup recurring donations on liberapay: https://liberapay.com/codeberg/donate

Or join as a member here: https://join.codeberg.org/

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#480

Post by matrss »

bayindirh wrote: post #264
matrss wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there standards committees with 786 voting members, of which you would have to convince at least 2/3 to betray the ideals of the association they chose to actively take part in to get the association to disband or otherwise stop it from pursuing its mission? I don't think your comparison works out.

~800 members? That's great to hear actually. I like Codeberg and want them to succeed and be protected from outside effects. That's said, I believe my comparison checks out. Having ~800 members is a useful moat, and will deter actors from harming Codeberg. OTOH, the mechanism can still theoretically work. Of course Microsoft won't try something that blatant, but if the e.V loses this moat, there are mechanisms which…

I took the number from here: https://blog.codeberg.org/letter-from-codeberg-onwards-and-u...

I think another big "moat" is actually that Codeberg is composed of natural people only (those with voting rights, anyway). Real people have values, and since they have to actively participate in Codeberg in some way to get voting rights those values are probably aligned with Codeberg's mission. I don't actually now the details of the standardization process you cite, but I think this is a big difference to it.

Additionally, from skimming the bylaws of Codeberg I'd say they have multiple fail-safes built in as additional protection. For one, you can't just pay ~1600 people to sign up and crash a general assembly, every membership application has to be approved first. They also ask for "support [for] the association and its purpose in an adequate fashion" from its members, and include mechanisms to kick people out that violate this or are otherwise acting against Codeberg's interests, which such a hostile attack would surely qualify as.

Of course it's something to stay vigilant about, but I think Codeberg is well positioned with regard to protecting against a hostile takeover and shutdown situation, to the point that DDoS is the much easier attack against them (as was the initial topic).

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