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DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

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Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#471

Post by CamperBob2 »

noosphr wrote: post #469
CamperBob2 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will be using a beam spreader to conform to the size of the targeted IC, which is usually on the order of 5x5 mm and up. For smaller parts they will be reducing the power. They shouldn't be focusing it to a point under any conditions. Whether it's as safe as it could be is a different question, of course. For instance, you'd like to think that the act of configuring it for a smaller beam footprint would reduce t…

OK, put you face in front of a 45w co2 laser tube and report your results. The laser is collimated but not focused so by your logic it will be fine. This is advice on par with eating tide pods.

That's obviously not a good-faith or technically-accurate description of what's happening here, or else everybody in that video would be carrying a white cane, along with everybody who uses this type of equipment in the phone repair business.

About all we can agree on, I think, is that neither of us knows enough about the product to argue about it usefully.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#472

Post by eru »

ActorNightly wrote: post #454
eru wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should start a company and try your strategy. I hope it works! (Though I am doubtful.) In any case, models are useful, even when they don't hit these efficiency targets you are projecting. Just like cars are useful, even when they are bigger than a pack of cards.

If someone wants to fund me, Ill gladly work on this. There is no money in this though, because selling cloud service is much more profitable. Its also not a matter of it working or not. It already works. Take a small model that fits on a GPU with a large context window, like Gemma 27b or smaller ones, give it a whole bunch of context on the topic, and ask it questions and it will generate very accurate results based…

> There is no money in this though, because selling cloud service is much more profitable.

Oh, be more creative. One simple way to make money off your idea is:

(1) Get a hedge fund to finance your R&D.

(2) Hedge fund shorts AI cloud providers and other relevant companies.

(3) Your R&D pans out and the AI cloud providers' stock tanks.

(4) The hedge fund makes a profit.

Though I don't understand: wouldn't your idea work work when served from the cloud, too? If what you are saying is true, you'd provide a better service at lower cost?

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#473

Post by noosphr »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #471
noosphr wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, put you face in front of a 45w co2 laser tube and report your results. The laser is collimated but not focused so by your logic it will be fine. This is advice on par with eating tide pods.

That's obviously not a good-faith or technically-accurate description of what's happening here, or else everybody in that video would be carrying a white cane, along with everybody who uses this type of equipment in the phone repair business. About all we can agree on, I think, is that neither of us knows enough about the product to argue about it usefully.

I build CO2 laser cutters after dropping out from my physics PhD for 18 months.

Unlike you I do know what I'm talking about.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#474

Post by culi »

nickstinemates wrote: post #353
victor9000 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the entire US economy is being propped up by AI hype.

The money would have gone somewhere. The "smart" money went to AI. Don't get fooled.

everybody looks smart in a bull market

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#475

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

pembrook wrote: post #375
deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, he didn't, and your link has nothing to do with your fallacy you were talking about

It absolutely does, and the fact that now 2 marxists (which I can see from your comment history) have a total inability to offer any actual rebuttal, does not surprise me.

theres nothing to rebut. you made an assertion thats false on the face of it and posted a link to something totally unrelated. it's so wrong i dont even know which part you're misunderstanding.

but one of the core ideas of marx's conception of history is that human needs, wants, and human nature itself are constantly in a state of change and that those needs and desires are in large part a product of the environment in which you live, and further that humans and human society in turn change their own environments which in turn change human nature itself

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#476

Post by deadfoxygrandpa »

pembrook wrote: post #468
Balinares wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing anywhere in that page anything about an assumed static basket of human wants and needs. Maybe I missed it -- can you point out where you saw that? Interesting, though, that per the very same article someone like Adam Smith concurred empirically with Marx's observation on the titular tendency of rates of profit to fall. This suggests to me it likely had some meat to it.

Without going too deep on it (I used to be a fan in university as a silly youth), the tendency of the rate of profit to fall is the key aspect of Marx's crisis theory. Basically dude thought the competition inherent in capitalism would cause all profit to be competed to zero leading to an eventual 'crisis' and collapse of the capitalist means of production. Implicit in this assumption is the idea that the things huma…

again, marx didnt see it as a fixed pie. thats the whole reason behind his idea of absolute vs relative surplus value, is that the pie isn't fixed. he absolutely saw the (at his time) modern capitalist economy as a revolutionary, dynamic force that brought about a great increase in the absolute amount of productive capacity and wealth in the world

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#477

Post by CamperBob2 »

noosphr wrote: post #473
CamperBob2 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's obviously not a good-faith or technically-accurate description of what's happening here, or else everybody in that video would be carrying a white cane, along with everybody who uses this type of equipment in the phone repair business. About all we can agree on, I think, is that neither of us knows enough about the product to argue about it usefully.

I build CO2 laser cutters after dropping out from my physics PhD for 18 months. Unlike you I do know what I'm talking about.

I see. Are you also an authority on Tide Pod gastronomy, or just regarding lasers you've never worked with installed in devices you've never seen?

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#478

Post by kriops »

tomhow wrote: post #470
kriops wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you, by any chance, delete my account? I have tried to do so before but it is not possible through the GUI. And I see you are associated with HN. Other than that let's be very clear that there was no personal attack. You left out the part where I explain why I think the comment was made in bad faith. I.e. the part that makes it not a personal attack. And a part which I, upon request, elaborated on in the same com…

We can disable your account if you email hn@ycombinator.com. That's in the FAQ – https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html . And yes I am a moderator and it's my role to prevent flamewars and to encourage everyone to raise the standard of discourse here. In my comment I was trying to convey that multiple comments of yours were crossing too far into political battle and personal attack, and here are the main instances…

The deletion request was completely unrelated. I just don’t like the interaction gamification. Thanks!

I have not made a single personal swipe in this entire comment tree. I have stated (implied) that certain views are not consistent with a cursory introduction to the topic at hand.

I absolutely assumed a basic familiarity with the concept of a state from a comment on the relationship between states. That is good faith and basic respect for the human you are conversing with as I view it.

Overall, I have kept a tone I would prefer be kept towards myself; fake politeness is just condescending.

That being said: Your site, your rules, and your power to arbitrarily interpret and enforce said rules. I.e., message received, regardless of my thoughts on your interpretation of events.

Re: DeepSeek-v3.2: Pushing the frontier of open large language models [pdf]

#480

Post by ActorNightly »

eru wrote: post #472
ActorNightly wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to fund me, Ill gladly work on this. There is no money in this though, because selling cloud service is much more profitable. Its also not a matter of it working or not. It already works. Take a small model that fits on a GPU with a large context window, like Gemma 27b or smaller ones, give it a whole bunch of context on the topic, and ask it questions and it will generate very accurate results based…

> There is no money in this though, because selling cloud service is much more profitable. Oh, be more creative. One simple way to make money off your idea is: (1) Get a hedge fund to finance your R&D. (2) Hedge fund shorts AI cloud providers and other relevant companies. (3) Your R&D pans out and the AI cloud providers' stock tanks. (4) The hedge fund makes a profit. Though I don't understand: wouldn't your idea wor…

From a functional pespective, it would provide somewhat identical performance to existing systems with a lower cost due to less dependence on compute and more dependence on storage. It would also allow more on-prem solutions.

However the issue with "funding" isn't as simple as that statement above. Remember, modern funding is not about value its about hype. There is a reason why CEOs like Jenson say that if they could go back in time, they would never start their companies knowing the bullshit they have to walk through.

Ive also had my fair share of experiences in trying to get startups off the ground - for example, back around 2018, I was working on a system that would take your existing AWS cloud setup, and move it all to EC2s with self hosted services, which saved people money in the long run. I had proof of concept working and everything. The issue that I ran into when trying to get funding to build this out into a full blown product/service that I didn't realize is that being on AWS services for companies was equivalent to a person wearing an expensive business suit to a sales meeting - it was fact that they would advertise because it was seen as industry standard and created "warm feelings" with their customers. So at most, I would get some small time customers, while getting paid much less.

Now I just work on stuff (and yes, I am working on the issue at hand with existing models), and publish it to github (not gonna share it cause don't want my HN account associated with it). If someone contacts me with a dollar figure Im all game.

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