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Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

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Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#471

Post by actionfromafar »

rawgabbit wrote: post #325
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually not advocating for a reduction in the size of government bodies and I'm a bit frustrated about it. I'm not advocating anything about the size of government bodies (though naturally I have my feelings.) I'm confused why people seem to be intuiting this. I'm in fact doubly frustrated because I feel that people seem to be injecting modern political points into something that I feel predates many of our mode…

Hmmm... I would argue the disengagement of citizens and the lack of participation is not strictly because of organizational size. It is the fact these organizations cannot care less about their customers, citizens, or the law. These rogue organizations are typically large. The cause of disengagement is that organizations, large or small, are not responsive to customers needs or citizens needs. In many cases, they are…

And regulatory capture is best done as a large organisation.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#472

Post by indigo945 »

vmg12 wrote: post #156
thewebguyd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large projects need resources, but who decides how those resources are deployed, to what end, and who benefits from them is the important part. All of your examples are profit-driven, and not necessarily (even if we do benefit) done for the greater good of all or advancement of society. We can still accomplish big innovations without those innovations coming from, or being controlled, by nation-state private companie…

> but who decides how those resources are deployed The current system selects people that have allocated resources effectively in the past by providing them more resources to allocate. > We've ran high-risk R&D projects successfully before as public projects And what is stopping countries from doing this today? This isn't an either or thing, public projects can still exist, there is no law of nature saying that massi…

> You bring up projects from decades ago but are there any modern examples?

There are no modern examples in the USA precisely because there is no political will to fund them. That political will is undermined because private companies are large and strong enough that they can influence politicians and prevent projects they they would have to compete with.

Your argument has the implication the wrong way around.

Meanwhile, look at China. The vast majority of China's cometlike economic success can be directly attributed to state funding, and many of its successful projects are directly state-run. That's because China still plays industrial politics that are concerned with economic growth and public welfare instead of rent-seeking.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#473

Post by onethought »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #96
cs702 wrote: post #21

Great post, thought-provoking. Highly recommended. Interestingly, in the past, the US federal government actively made efforts to keep private organizations from becoming too dominant. Here are just a few examples, from memory: * The Bell system was broken up, resulting in a geographically distributed telecom network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System : Your phone company was local. * Banks cou…

> Interestingly, in the past, the US federal government actively made efforts to keep private organizations from becoming too dominant. Yes but one can't just ignore the federal government itself, as if this wasn't an organization. In this framing of small organizations kept small by the government the largest organization is the State. Indeed in this framing the State's job is to control other organizations. While a…

Government organisations try to produce public good. Private organisations try to produce profit.

This is why “running a government like a business” is flawed, and treating all large organisations as the same, is also flawed.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#475

Post by AnthonyMouse »

yannyu wrote: post #121
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, in the past, the US federal government actively made efforts to keep private organizations from becoming too dominant. Yes but one can't just ignore the federal government itself, as if this wasn't an organization. In this framing of small organizations kept small by the government the largest organization is the State. Indeed in this framing the State's job is to control other organizations. While a…

Yes, but also we've eroded state and city rights in favor of federalism and standardization in the US as well. It's arguable that many steps in that direction have been for the better, but the consequence still remains that we've eroded the power of smaller organizations as a result. You're correct to note that this phenomenon crosses all aspects of life in the US, whether talking about churches, PTAs, book clubs, bu…

> Yes, but also we've eroded state and city rights in favor of federalism and standardization in the US as well. It's arguable that many steps in that direction have been for the better, but the consequence still remains that we've eroded the power of smaller organizations as a result.

Oh, that one is easy. The original US constitution gave the federal government the right to preempt state laws in matters within its enumerated powers, but placed strict limits on what those powers are, and created a check against federal overreach by creating the US Senate, which originally had its members elected by state legislatures who would thereby send Senators disinclined to let the federal government usurp their powers.

Then populists amended the constitution to cause US Senators to be directly elected, and since US Supreme Court Justices are confirmed by the Senate, that in turn allowed them to replace the Justices with ones who would do things like read the inter-state commerce clause as covering non-commerce happening entirely within a single state.

Having eliminated any meaningful constitutional restrictions on federal power, federal officials were then captured by large corporations to enact federal regulations that only those large corporations can comply with, and to erode any federal constraints on corporate mergers while still preempting the states from imposing them either.

You can't give the central government the authority to do something and then expect them not to. If you don't want them to do something, you need something actively constraining them from doing it. Which was the US Senate until it wasn't.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#476

Post by polskibus »

Was hoping for a more data-driven diagnosis. The reality is much different, smaller orgs can move faster than large. It is definitely not possible in areas that require huge CAPEX or OPEX like AI, but in many other areas it happens often.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#477

Post by [deleted] »

Ifkaluva wrote: post #267
fraserharris wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever fills the void for people. ie: instead of bowling leagues, people watch TV or play video games. It's arguably a worse product because it doesn't fulfill the socialization or exercise needs of people, but it does fill the same block of time.

I guess it’s worse in the sense of providing health benefits, but it’s better in the sense that more people would freely choose it if given the choice. It’s the same as junk food, people will freely choose it over healthier options. Basically, products on the free market optimize for what people prefer to buy, and people’s preferences are shaped by evolution to a world in which physical rest and high-calorie foods we…

[deleted]

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#478

Post by kristjank »

defrost wrote: post #459
seu wrote: post #456

> An individual human without any of the support provided by larger organized groups is only able to exist at quite primitive levels, as any number of pieces of post-apocalyptic fiction can portray. This guy may be a math genius, but he should at least pay minimal respect to the thousands of people who have studied human cultures, societies and civilizations, and to their findings, before coming up with a post about…

As an anthropologist can you sketch out, for us not so blessed, an example of the higher or highest levels of existence an individual lacking any support from any larger organized groups has actually obtained? Thanks.

No, you're just supposed to shut up because an anthropologist has thrown a title at you.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#479

Post by CalRobert »

AppleBananaPie wrote: post #453
grues-dinner wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, children are expected and virtually required to be supervised 24/7 for the first 14-ish years. Kicking kids out to play like Just William while Mrs Brown goes to the Women's Institute all afternoon is now called neglect and child abuse.

Part of it was older kids looking after younger ones which just isn't a thing anymore as far as I can tell.

It’s telling that in one generation 13 year olds went from being babysitters to needing them.

Re: Terence Tao: The role of small organizations in society has shrunk significantly

#480

Post by CalRobert »

grues-dinner wrote: post #461
AppleBananaPie wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it was older kids looking after younger ones which just isn't a thing anymore as far as I can tell.

You have to have at least two kids for that, and with a big enough age difference for it to work. And if it goes wrong you can get prosecuted for that and/or dragged through public infamy. In fact even if it doesn't go wrong you can probably still be reported for it. Which is presumably a very good thing for child safety, but obviously there are these downstream effects. Another similar thought was the theory that ca…

It’s doable with a few specialist car seats but not convenient.

Maybe we should bring back 3 row vehicles. I loved the rear facing back seats in my Volvo wagon

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