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Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#471

Post by zaphar »

zem wrote: post #420
zaphar wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen credible evidence that this is what Cloudflare sees as their business. They fundamentally don't care what browser the user is using. What they care about are the traffic patterns of users and preventing their customers from getting hit by bots, spam, and other malicious traffic. The fact that some browsers that look like malicious traffic is not something they can control or reasonably be held respo…

surely they can be held responsible - they are the ones defining whatever heuristics cause traffic to be classed as malicious!

no?

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#472

Post by john01dav »

0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #130
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox/Gecko also just can’t be as relevant as a Chrome/Blink competitor since Gecko doesn’t support embedding on desktop operating systems, which precludes things like Electron-style wrapping and hybrid apps. It’s a fatal flaw that Mozilla doesn’t seem to have any interest in addressing.

Maybe that's why Servo got the boot?

Unlike Gecko, Servo supports embedding as a first class feature. It was designed from the ground up with this in mind.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#473

Post by john01dav »

krmboya wrote: post #432
blinkingled wrote: post #416

I am happy for a new browser/engine but I'm highly skeptical that Ladybird will ever come close to Chrome or Firefox in terms of features, compatibility and performance. It's just very hard to imagine. There's servo and look at where it is after 13 years! No offense to anyone really but browser engines are inhumane amount of talent and effort. Might as well just keep making Firefox better.

Firefox doubled down on using/selling user data for advertising purposes, so that's a big reason for avoiding it. I held onto it as someone who didn't even like the politics of the people behind it (the beauty of open source), for the sake of browser engine diversity, but changing terms of service of use of personal data was the final blow

It seems irrational to me to switch to chrome (and where else could you switch to?) over data sale concerns. A more rational approach could be a Firefox fork that preserves privacy.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#474

Post by M95D »

But why would anyone use Omarchy (based on Arch) and not use Gentoo directly? Not a separate project based on Gentoo, but a Gentoo Reference System [1]?

Gentoo already has all dev tools installed - they're an indispensable part of the package manager.

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:RelEng_GRS

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#475

Post by john01dav »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #317
_bent wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat - Kling is explicitly 'apolitical' and this always attracts a certain ilk of people. --- And - maybe this is a stretch, but you also have to consider that the competing product (Servo) is written in Rust, while Ladybird is C++. From what you read on hn, I think Rusts community being very liberal sort of resulted in memory safety being perceived as a culture war thing by some; ("authoritarian big compiler is…

I'm not sure how true that is when half the Rust job postings are cryptocurrency related.

In Rust communities, like the official Discord server, there tend to be more left type people. Furthermore, if you go to left leaning communities that aren't related to programming the few programmers who are there are almost always Rust enjoyers. The cryptocurrency use also exists, of course. I suspect that the common thread in both cases is idealism -- leftists want what they see as an ideal economic system while crypto bros, when they aren't scamming, want an ideal financial system. Rust in many ways is closer to an ideal language in a way that feels to me to be similar to those other idealist arguments

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#476

Post by nickjj »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #456
nickjj wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised so many people who want to use Arch aren't in it for the fiddling. I've had publicly installable dotfiles with a "1 command and ~5 minutes later" you have your development environment set up for a few years now. It is command line focused since my main box is running WSL 2 with Arch Linux. The script works for Debian, Ubuntu, Arch and macOS since I use a work laptop that's running a MBP. It was a lot of…

If you feel it's not for you, then it's probably not for you. I don't think Omarchy is or needs to be for everyone. Its recipe for success is likely that it's catering to a fairly particular archetype that's generally overlooked by most distributions and OS vendors, and not trying to be or do anything else.

I don't think distributions or OS vendors focus on that because imagine the outrage if you installed Windows and it pre-installed Zoom, Spotify and 80 other apps for you out of the box.

I think it's popular because DHH turned dotfiles into a product and it's being marketed as a distro. Arch + (Hyprland, Waybar, Walker and Mako) are all really popular and standlone tools that make up a reasonable looking desktop environment which Omarchy happens to use too.

I have nothing against it. If it gets more people using Linux, that is a huge win. I just find it fasinating to see it from the outside.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#477

Post by nerdponx »

boxed wrote: post #443
nerdponx wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are kind of different statements. For-profit institutions will almost always act in the interest of profit for the people who have an ownership stake and a claim to the prophet stream. That's definitionally why they exist, and we have enough evidence from the history of everything ever to assume that they will for the most part act that way. You are saying something different. You are pointing out that the peopl…

> For-profit institutions will almost always act in the interest of profit for the people who have an ownership stake and a claim to the [profit] stream. But they won't. This statement is a declaration of faith/religion, not a statement of fact. It's a common belief, but that doesn't make it true.

It's a matter of historical fact. When has this not been the case. Can you think of any serious examples? Everyone everywhere all the time is just responding to the incentives in their environment. "Make a lot of money" is a very very powerful incentive.

There are exceptions all over the place where businesses don't act like robber barons, sure. Take for example Market Basket up here in New England, where the CEO for years and years resisted raising prices and tried to treat workers well, in the interest of maintaining a long-term positive image and being a sustainable element of the region's economy. But guess what: he was just forced out for not being greedy enough. Lots of people seem to be expecting a private equity takeover soon.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#478

Post by krmboya »

john01dav wrote: post #473
krmboya wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox doubled down on using/selling user data for advertising purposes, so that's a big reason for avoiding it. I held onto it as someone who didn't even like the politics of the people behind it (the beauty of open source), for the sake of browser engine diversity, but changing terms of service of use of personal data was the final blow

It seems irrational to me to switch to chrome (and where else could you switch to?) over data sale concerns. A more rational approach could be a Firefox fork that preserves privacy.

Privacy is a big deal for many, especially if you grew up before the age of telemetry everywhere.

For now, a privacy preserving chromium fork will do, until hopefully the Ladybird project is mature enough to provide alternatives

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#479

Post by luxcem »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #305
xenelor wrote: post #275

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

People distro hop all the time for out of the box experience. Very few enjoy configuring their desktop to perfection, because frankly it's a huge PITA with everything being split between a thousand control panels and config files with differing conventions and levels of documentation. When a distro with a default configuration close to what some group of users is looking for shows up, that's exciting to that group be…

Claude Code really helped me with this recently. I have a rather old dotfiles repository (10+ years) for my Arch system, and I can really feel the fatigue from updating and maintaining it. So much so that over the years, it has accumulated many minor annoyances that I never fixed. Nowadays, I can simply explain these issues to an LLM, and it will mostly resolve them.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#480

Post by archon810 »

danpalmer wrote: post #404
marginalia_nu wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch linux is a great linux distro that's kinda difficult to set up (more so historically but it's got that reputation). Hyprland is a great WM that has garbage default settings and requires wading through tons of documentation, as well as a lot of effort to set up. Omarchy is a distribution that ships Arch + Hyprland with sane defaults. The whole thing installs in minutes, and is overall very easy to get going with.…

Sounds like Omarchy also ships with a bunch of bloatware. Why would I need the Hey or Basecamp apps – neither are targeted at developers, neither are commonly used, and both are just websites loosely packaged as installable apps anyway. Similarly for Steam (which runs at startup by default I believe), Spotify, Minecraft (which will bring a JVM?). It's bordering on Dell shipping Norton Antivirus to everyone and callin…

Because DHH, obviously.
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