Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think Trump is anyone's idea of a textbook conservative, especially not economically I'm just going off what you said above: > The US is a very right wing country. > It's politicians are better able to avoid populist price controls. I don't think he is a traditional conservative either, but rather a right-wing nationalist ethno-socialist. However, the fact is that he has the near unanimous support of most "…
I'm just piling on but: > a textbook conservative, especially not economically Wtf is a text book conservative supposed to be, exactly? And have we ever had one? All the republicans in my life have raised the national debt and spent their time passing laws about culture war issues.
How can England possibly be running out of water?
471–480 of 524 posts
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US is a very right wing country. It's politicians are better able to avoid populist price controls. Maybe with Mamdani that's now changing. Rather than placing price controls on private companies the US slashes taxes to the point where public services then cannot invest in infrastructure and maintenance - and then use that as an argument why public services should be privatized. If tax cuts aren't populist poli…
The difficulty of getting people to vote for tax rises is a good justification for privatization. This difficulty isn't some uniquely right wing thing. The Democrats and Labour don't campaign on general tax rises either. At most, the left are willing to campaign on "tax rises for people who aren't you". That's because any party that wants to raise taxes on the majority loses. So, governments of any color have to work…
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
Within whose party base? If you're saying that the Tories are viewed as too left-wing by Reform voters, then I assume that's true because Reform are further right than the Tories, but so what? If you're saying that Conservative voters find it "controversial" (whatever exactly you mean by that) that Reform is recruiting former Conservative politicians -- well, I'm sure they don't like it, no one likes it when some oth…
> Pretty much no one other than extreme rightists would describe the Conservatives as a centre-left party If an election were called tomorrow your next government would be Reform with a massive majority of 339 seats. It is the most popular party in the country by far. It would collect 33% of the vote vs Labour's 18% and the Conservatives would get only 17%, translating to their near-total destruction (only 35 seats).…
(Just remarking in passing on what a terrible electoral system we have in the UK. But, also, precisely because we have this terrible system, it is likely that a lot of the 67% who would prefer Reform not to win would, if there were actually an election tomorrow, vote for parties other than their first preference in the hope of keeping them out. Voters who don't like Reform often really don't like Reform.)
> that's a third of the country saying through their votes they think the Conservatives are a center-left party
Assuming for the sake of argument that it's actually true that 1/3 of voters would vote Reform if there were an election tomorrow (polled voting intentions far away from actual election dates aren't super-reliable) and that all those people agree with Reform about everything, that's 1/3 of the country who are to the right of the Conservatives.
That is not the same thing as 1/3 of the country thinking that the Conservatives are a centre-left party.
(There are plenty of people to the left of the Labour Party but wouldn't call them a centre-right party.)
Also, by your own numbers, we have: 33% to the right of the Conservatives; 17% to the left of the Conservatives; 60% voting for other parties, mostly the Lib Dems and Greens who are also to the left of the Conservatives, typically followed by the SNP and Plaid Cymru, also to the left of the Conservatives, and a few percent of random others most of whom are also to the left of the Conservatives.
A party that is to the right of (let's say) 55% of the electorate is not in any useful sense a centre-left party.
> Labour's support for far-left ideology is so intense they're reacting to continuously dropping approval numbers by doubling down
This is laughably different from anything that is actually happening. For instance:
> They'd rather drive their own party into the ground than compromise on modern left wing goals like unlimited mass immigration
Here is an instance from each of the last five months of the Labour Party demonstrating, or at least claiming, that it does not want unlimited mass immigration.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrv7pwrzo "Sir Keir Starmer has promised the government's new immigration measures will mean net migration falls "significantly" over the next four years." and https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-immig... "Sir Keir Starmer unveiled drastic plans to slash migration on Monday (May 2025; these are about the same white paper)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-small... "Sir Keir Starmer has signalled a new hardline approach to tackling illegal immigration by limiting visas for countries which did not do enough to tackle the irregular migration crisis, like taking back failed asylum seekers." (June 2025)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/10/starmer-and-... "Keir Starmer and Emmanuel Macron will announce a “one in, one out” migration deal on Thursday that will involve the UK accepting some cross-Channel asylum seekers but returning others to France." (July 2025)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/04/starmer-hires-of... "Yvette Cooper, the Home Secretary, announced a £100 million investment in border security which will pay for the NCA to get an additional 300 officers to work on organised immigration crime." (August 2025)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y5379djl3o "Sir Keir Starmer has confirmed for the first time the government is looking at digital ID as a way to tackle illegal immigration." (September 2025)
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that these are all things that would please or satisfy your, or the typical Reform voter's, preferences around immigration. I am sure it is true that the Labour Party is less opposed to immigration than you would like it to be. But it is flatly untrue that they would do anything rather than compromise on unlimited mass immigration; if they want unlimited mass immigration at all (which all the evidence suggests they don't) they are compromising on it rather a lot. In other words, doing exactly what you say centrists do and far-leftists don't do.
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Page 10 of their 24/25 annual report says they only pay 8% toward interest payments, the largest outgoing is infrastructure, then opex. https://www.thameswater.co.uk/media-library/l13deqmw/thames-...
I'm not a financial wiz, but it seems like they are playing games here, as a huge chunk of their stated losses for the year is some sort of loan write-off against their parent company. > £1,271 million of expected credit loss provision recognised against the intercompany loan receivable from TWUL’s immediate parent company, Thames Water Utilities Holdings Limited. This balance is fully provided for, as it is not deem…
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing is, if a water company is in good financial health, with low debt and lots of money to invest in infrastructure, it’s completely legal for private equity to buy the company, stop investing in infrastructure, take out loans until a third of customer bills go on interest payments, and take the loaned money as ‘management fees’. Then dump untreated sewerage in rivers and demand more money from bill payers, bec…
Can you show me which UK water companies are in such a situation? My provider is Thames Water. They are losing money.
According to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgleg70r7rno
> When Thames was privatised in 1989, it had no debt. But over the years it borrowed heavily and its total debt - which includes all of its borrowings and liabilities - now stands at £22.8bn, according to latest financial results, external.
> Its debt pile increased sharply when Macquarie, an Australian infrastructure bank, owned Thames Water, with debts reaching more than £10bn by the time the company was sold in 2017.
According to https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41152516
> Macquarie and its investors paid £5.1bn for Thames Water, of which £2.8bn was money Macquarie had borrowed [...] £2bn had subsequently been repaid. Not by Macquarie and its investors, who had originally borrowed the money, but from new borrowings raised by Thames Water through a Cayman Islands subsidiary.
> Martin Blaiklock said: "That letter was a red flag to me because it showed clearly that the debt which Macquarie funds had used to buy Thames Water had been transferred over to Thames Water." [...]
> the total returns made by the bank and its investors from Thames Water averaged between 15.5% and 19% a year. Mr Blaiklock has 40 years of experience in such matters and said these returns were "twice what one would normally expect"
According to https://news.sky.com/story/approval-for-higher-bills-and-loa...
> The company, which has been crumbling under a £16bn debt pile, was due to run out of money in about a month's time. It has now received court approval for another £3bn loan [...] the company's gearing ratio is 80% and its annual debt interest bill is around £900m (about a third of the revenue it gets from customer bills) [...]
> The water regulator has sanctioned bill increases of 35% by 2030.
> However, Thames wants more. It is seeking a 53% increase, which would take the average bill to £677 a year
This stuff's all pretty widely documented and reported, if your idea of fun is getting angry and depressed while also reading about business accounting.
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
So... because capitalism. People have this propagandized view that the "free market" (which isn't real) is responsible for innovation. All capitalism does is build enclosures and engage in rent-seeking. With the tendency for profits to decrease, ultimately it comes down to cutting costs and raising prices. So why would a water company invest in a new reservoir? That increases supply. That might lower prices. The UK i…
>People have this propagandized view that the "free market" (which isn't real) is responsible for innovation. In the last century and a half, we went from candle light and horse and buggy, to the lowest level of global poverty in the last 5,000 years of recorded human history. If capitalism wasn't responsible then what was?
[1]: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#477> Future generations, who will be dealing with long, dry summers, would probably be shocked at the profligate way clean tap water was used to flush toilets, water gardens and run washing machines. Climate change means societal change. There was a time that Northern Africa was one of the best places in the world to grow crops. They were at the top of civilization for thousands of years. Climate changed, what people co…
Flushing a toilet will always be cheap. Desalination costs somewhere around $1 per tonne of water.
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, in theory nationalized companies can set prices rationally and turn a profit. In practice they rarely manage this for long because sooner or later a populist comes along and forces them to lower prices in order to win votes. It's not just water where the UK has a problem with this. Transport for London has also been forced to underprice its services for years by London's socialist mayor, it's a big part of how h…
Could you explain the case that TfL charges too low for fares due to a "socialist" mayor? Looking at the agency's reported recovery ratios, they actually recover more than 100% of their direct operating costs on the Underground from fares, and even buses have a 70% ratio. In the Western world this is actually abnormally high; in NYC buses don't even clear 20%. It's possible some of this gap is explained by accounting…
The freezes eliminated investment projects needed to keep pace with population growth. There's also just big problems maintaining the stations and doing more than the bare minimum needed to keep the lights on. Travel on it and the stations are dirty, overly hot, etc.
Drivers on London's roads are very heavily taxed already, supposedly to reflect those externalities. Public transport obviously also contributes to pollution and congestion, especially when building underground lines, it's not externality-free.
I don't think TfL has a cost crisis. Crossrail overran but that was mostly due to the software complexities of the signalling tech debt around the Heathrow tunnels and other issues that can affect any kind of project. It's just hard to tell right now because they can't build at all.
The fare freeze was broken by central government briefly, but only by bribing Khan with central government money for upgrades. Exactly the outcome he wanted!
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#479Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good example. The CDU is in a coalition with the left wing parties and refuses to work with the AfD in any way, not even winning votes with their votes, on the basis that the AfD is right wing and thus inherently evil. So the CDU is indeed not a recognizably right wing party anymore, and has suffered mass defections for that very reason. If it were, it would enter into coalitions with other right wing parties rather…
> on the basis that the AfD is right wing and thus inherently evil I thought it was on the basis of the whole Nazi thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany#Neo-Na... Everyone except Nazis agrees that Nazis are inherently evil.
Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pretty much no one other than extreme rightists would describe the Conservatives as a centre-left party If an election were called tomorrow your next government would be Reform with a massive majority of 339 seats. It is the most popular party in the country by far. It would collect 33% of the vote vs Labour's 18% and the Conservatives would get only 17%, translating to their near-total destruction (only 35 seats).…
> If an election were called tomorrow [...] Reform with a massive majority [...] 33% of the vote (Just remarking in passing on what a terrible electoral system we have in the UK. But, also, precisely because we have this terrible system, it is likely that a lot of the 67% who would prefer Reform not to win would, if there were actually an election tomorrow, vote for parties other than their first preference in the ho…
> the Labour Party demonstrating, or at least claiming, that it does not want unlimited mass immigration
Yes, they lie about it because they know it's incredibly unpopular. And then they refuse to do anything that'd actually solve it. That's what non-centrist parties look like. A centrist party would be panicking over their immense unpopularity and trying to actually stake out the center ground with real policy movement.
Your list of links is a good example of my point. In turn:
- Publishing a white paper.
- "Vowing to take tougher action".
- An announcement that didn't have any effect on the ground (there is no one-in-one-out happening in reality).
- A commitment to spend more money! This is at least a believable commitment from them. It's been tried many times before and doesn't work. They know this already.
- An announcement to look at something.
Announcements that they will study the possibility of taking action, one day, possibly, is what it looks like when a government likes a situation the voters don't. Here are some things you didn't include which show their actual position:
- Arguing before the court that the rights of migrants take precedence over the rights of native Brits.
- Saying "of course we do" when an interviewer asks a minister if they really believe that.