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Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

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Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#471

Post by bavell »

kkukshtel wrote: post #435
corimaith wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future of games was MMORPGs and RPG-ization in general as other genres adopted progression systems. But the former two are simply too expensive and risky even today for AAA to develop. Which brings us to another point, the problem with Western AAA is more about high levels of risk aversion, which is what's really feeding the lack of imaginative. And that's more to do with the economics of opportunity cost to the…

You may be interested in reading something I wrote a while ago that's pretty dead on to what you're talking about there: https://kylekukshtel.com/game-design-mimetics

Great read and insights! I learned a few things and found myself nodding along most of the article.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#472

Post by K0balt »

keithwhor wrote: post #325
echelon wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you could 100x the efficiency of game development. > It would blow up the game industry, but also spawn a million independent one or two person studios producing some really imaginative niche experiences that could be much, much more expansive (like a AAA title) than the typical indie-studio product. All video games become Minecraft / Roblox / VRChat. You don't need AAA studios. People can make and share their own…

You’ve just described what Roblox is already doing.

I haven’t checked on Roblox recently, but afaik it doesn’t really allow complete creative freedom or the ability to have a picture and say “make the world look like this, and make the character textures match the vibe” and have it happen. Don’t they still have a unified world experience or can you really customize things that deeply now?

Can you make a basically indistinguishable copy of other games in Roblox? If so, that’s pretty cool, even without AI integration.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#473

Post by amarcheschi »

skeezyboy wrote: post #177
wolttam wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to see how there will be room for profit as this all advances There will be two classes of media: - Generated, consumed en-masse by uncreative, uninspired individuals looking for cheap thrill - Human created, consumed by discerning individuals seeking out real human talent and expression. Valuing it based merely on the knowledge that a biological brain produced (or helped produce) it. I tend to suspect that…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pause_Giant_AI_Experiments:_An... people said the world could literally end if we train anything bigger than chatgpt4... I would take these projections with a handful of salt

At this point we should have been dead for God knows how many times (I'm not going to check yud's Twitter for his actual predictions)

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#474

Post by kannanvijayan »

casenmgreen wrote: post #162
diwank wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Future robots may learn in their dreams... So prescient. I definitely think this will be a thing in the near future ~12-18 months time horizon

I may be wrong, but this seems to make no sense. A neural net can produce information outside of its original data set, but it is all and directly derived from that initial set. There are fundamental information constraints here. You cannot use a neural net to itself generate from its existing data set wholly new and original full quality training data for itself. You can use a neural net to generate data, and you ca…

The benefit of these AI-generated simulation models as a training mechanism is that it helps add robustness without requiring a large training set. The recombinations can generate wider areas of the space to explore and learn with but using a smaller basis space.

To pick an almost trivial example, let's say OCR digit recognition. You'll train on the original data-set, but also on information-preserving skews and other transforms of that data set to add robustness (stretched numbers, rotated numbers, etc.). The core operation here is taking a smallset in some space (original training data) and producing some bigset in that same space (generated training data).

For simple things like digit recognition, we can imagine a lot of transforms as simple algorithms, but one can consider more complex problems and realize that an ML model would be able to do a good job of learning how to generate bigset candidates from the smallset.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#475

Post by imadr »

wolttam wrote: post #442
abrookewood wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why this is the case? I don't understand why.

I'll try! Let's consider a tree blowing in the wind: To classically render this in any realistic fashion, it quickly gets complex. Between the physics simulation (rather involved) and the number of triangles (trees have many branches and leaves), you're going to be doing a lot of math . I'll emphasize "realistic" - sure, we can real-time render trees in 2025 that look.. ok. However, take more than a second to glance…

Don't you think a sufficiently advanced model will end up emulating what normal 3D engines already do mathematically? At least for the rendering part, I don't see you can "compress" the meaning behind light interaction without ending up with a somewhat latent representation of the rendering equation

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#477

Post by delusional »

sitkack wrote: post #400
delusional wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know where Noam makes that argument? I've been trying to figure out where I picked it up years ago. I'd like to revisit it to deepen my understanding. It's a pretty universal insight.

Look for discussion with British journalist Andrew Marr during a BBC interview in 1996. The lead in to the quote starts at https://youtu.be/GjENnyQupow?t=662 "I don't say you're self-censoring - I'm sure you believe everything you're saying; but what I'm saying is, if you believed something different, you wouldn't be sitting where you're sitting." -- Noam Chomksy to Andrew Marr

It's a shame the interviewer didn't quite grasp that point and dig a little deeper into it. Listening to it again I'm reminded of "The masters tools will never dismantle the master's house".

Thank you for finding that link for me :)

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#478

Post by kevinventullo »

roywiggins wrote: post #428
pixl97 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have a million 'social' followers now, all posting on how your personally generated music is great, along with posting their faces and lives. What does social mean in a future that could just simulate it.

Well, maybe. But there are overwhelmingly large numbers of people who want to be in a fandom , and that means being fans of some shared thing. Maybe that shared thing will be AI generated, but it won't be a world of solipsists.

I think what the person you’re responding to meant was that you can generate a fandom for the content that was generated for you. So, you can get the feeling of being in a fandom despite there being no actual other humans that know what you’re talking about.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#479

Post by simianparrot »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #454
hhjinks wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GTA VI's story mode won't be surpassed by a world model, but the fucking around and blowing things up part conceivably could, and that's how people are spending their time in GTA. I don't see a world model providing the framing needed to contextualize the mayhem, thereby making it fun, anytime soon myself, but down the line? Maybe.

I would envision someone creative working together with Gen AI being able to do something awesome, rather than just saying "make me a GTA clone". But someone creative having a vision in their head and then just guiding AI to flesh out the assets, details, etc.

They will then learn the bitter lesson that convincing the GenAI to create something that brings your vision to life is impossible. It's a real talent to even be able to define for yourself what your vision is, and then to have artists achieve it visually in any medium is a process of back and forth between people with their own interpretations evolving the idea into something even better and cohesive.

GenAI will never get there because it can't, by design. It can riff on what was, and it can please the prompter, but it cannot challenge anyone creatively. No current LLM's can, either. I'll eat my hat if this is wrong in ten years, but it won't be.

It will generate refined slop ad nauseam, and that will train people's brains into spotting said slop faster using less energy. And then it'll be shunned.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#480

Post by thomastjeffery »

sunsunsunsun wrote: post #211
yomismoaqui wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, why are you doing art? - Because you enjoy it - Because you get pats in the back from people you share it with - Because you want to earn money from it The 1st one will continue to be true in this dystopian AI art future, the other not so much. And sincerely I find that kind of human art, the one that comes from a pure inner force, the more interesting one. EDIT: list formatting

You seem to forget that most artists enjoy it but due to the structure of our society are forced to either give it up for most of their waking life to earn money or attempt to market their art to the masses to make money. This AI stuff only makes it harder for artists to make any kind of living off of their work.

That's true, but an important part of that is the fact that most artists are not succeeding financially at all.

Why should we be so desperate to cling to a system that isn't even working?

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