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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#471

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #365
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can at least concede it's not entirely arbitrary content like say a sitcom I'd actually hypothesise that if you locked three sets of teenage boys in rooms, one with only porn games, one with only social media and one with only sitcoms, that the first group would likely emerge the healthiest of the three. I'm basing this on my bias towards activity and that nobody seems to have bothered with actually doing resea…

What do you consider "healhty", though? It's a very broad term that doesn't actually mean much on its own.

> What do you consider "healhty", though?

Whatever you want. Substance abuse rates. Marriage or long-term partnership rates. Employment. Income. Wealth. Serum cortisol.

My assumption is someone actively participating in something, even something unhealthy, is going to maintain cognitive and executive function above someone simply observing. (To the degree these games may be destructive, I'd argue it's in its game mechanics.)

We have no evidence pornography causes negative outcomes across population. (Versus among a vulnerable subset.) We have lots of evidence for social media addiction causing broad psychological issues, particularly in children.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#472

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kreco wrote: post #329
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the evidence is coming half a century after when everyone got cancer Yes. Then the evidence was suppressed for decades more. We have no analogy here. > Precautionary principle should always prevail Why? Why assume the status quo is perfect? Also, what part of pornography isn't embedded into the human status quo ? > don't use a random pesticide, unless you have a full proof that's it's harmless There is no such thin…

> Why? Why assume the status quo is perfect? Also, what part of pornography isn't embedded into the human status quo? No one said that. But you should fool yourself saying that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Here is your own quote: > I have seen zero evidence that any of these games are harmful.

> No one said that

If the precautionary principle should always prevail, then yes, that's what's being said.

In this case, it's difficult to even disentangle what the status quo is. Pornography, this group's bogeyman, is millenia old. Computer games, decades. The combination is a bit novel, but it's also more precedented than these bans.

> I have seen zero evidence that any of these games are harmful

Yeah. I see evidence they're demanded by the people who we're putatively protecting, however. And I see lots of evidence of other harmful things that aren't banned. Herego, why the fuck are we kneejerking on this?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#473

Post by thunderfork »

mkleczek wrote: post #189
burkaman wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Steam dropped Visa and Mastercard and successfully got most of their customers to use a Bitcoin payment processor instead, wouldn't these organizations just pressure that processor? I don't see how it would be any different. If the problem you're trying to solve is that private payment processors can deny service to anyone they don't like, the underlying technology the processor uses is irrelevant.

Bitcoin does not require any payment processor. That's its whole point: censorship-resistant, permissionless, p2p payment system.

[dead]

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#474

Post by throwaway_l33t »

pstuart wrote: post #433
ben_w wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. The claim isn't "we don't like it", the claim is "this is damaging to society". I don't agree with such things in many cases (and many people disagree with me when I'm the one saying something is damaging to society), but it's important to note the difference or you will always be arguing against something other than their claim. > No one, including governments or paym…

> the claim is "this is damaging to society" There is some truth to that, but if one were to operate at that level then Facebook would be illegal. Porn is a convenient thing to weaponize anger in your constituents (just like babies not being born). It pushes emotional triggers and riles people up and then they're waiting to be told what to hate/attack next.

> one were to operate at that level then Facebook would be illegal.

This shows a fairly low level of engagement with the sorts of people that are pushing to ban porn. It’s not uncommon for them to be anti-screens, social media, etc. for similar reasons. The movement is often as much an attempt to get kids outsides and reduce the influence of smartphones and the internet on society as it is an attempt to ban porn.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#476

Post by mkzetta »

I'm assuming this is driven by stakeholders in the legacy porn business prompted to anticompetitive action by generative AI tools seriously threatening their monopoly on sexual content for the first time. There has always been a huge barrier to entry into porn for non-seedy, non-abusive, and mentally stable people. Art-based content like games are both much easier to create without a human trafficking network and are usually far more wholesome than the prevalent legacy porn tropes, which often center around incest, coercion, chauvinistic infidelity or miscegenation, and other disgusting themes. I am hoping there are people archiving this content for future sociological study.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#477

Post by UltraSane »

RankingMember wrote: post #115
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

You do know that porn is legal to produce and view in the US and the US produces a LOT of porn? This hardly seems puritanical.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#478

Post by UltraSane »

t-writescode wrote: post #405
anonym29 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Protecting women" is an incoherent excuse for pressuring websites to pull romantic games that feature consensual, loving, respectful homosexual male-male relationships, with no women even present in the game. The real motivations seemingly have nothing to do with protecting women, which appears to simply be a palatable facade for the true intention to suppress all depictions of sexuality, including the depictions th…

Ironically, isn’t most MfM smut written by and for women?

yep

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#479

Post by phyzix5761 »

RankingMember wrote: post #115
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

The Puritanical origins of the US reverberate to this day. While coming for "freedom of religion" sounds like a noble origin story, the context was that they wanted the freedom to practice a much stricter, restrictive form of religion than that allowed by the Church of England.

Weren't the Pilgrims, also known as Separatists, being jailed if they didn't attend Church of England services per the Act of Uniformity of 1559? And weren't they jailed without trial if they tried to have their own religious services in private homes?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#480

Post by Negitivefrags »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #302
kelseyfrog wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making sure I get this straight. You're saying that if you shared that believe, you would go out in search of evidence to prove it? I hate to break the news, but if we read the literature published by members of Collective Shout, they have in fact done this. The evidence they have supports their claims. Let's be clear, the evidence they have is independent of the veracity of the claims, but they have done with you su…

> if we read the literature published by members of Collective Shout, they have in fact done this Granted, I've skimmed, but I'm genuinely not seeing it [1]. The closest is this study [2], which counted how many times thirty-eight women "who self-identified as having experienced unwanted or non-consensual sexual experiences in relationships" and were "recruited via social media," when "given the opportunity to reflec…

You kind of missed the point. It doesn't matter if what they did is or isn't real science. They believe it is, and so as far as they are concerned, it's proven.

So then what? Since they really believe what they said, how can you blame them for their actions?

You might argue that since they are wrong, their beliefs should be changed. Well sure, maybe they should.

You could commission a study to confirm that, then try to persaude people. Perhaps form a collective to persuade others of that belief. Oh wait....

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