Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

craigmod.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 512 posts

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#471

Post by aikinai »

1-more wrote: post #340
Rebelgecko wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even sticking with Japan, Kyoto was basically saved by international tourism. An American tourist ended up ended up intervening 20 years after his visit when he saw Kyoto at the top of America's list of cities to use nuclear weapons on. Although I don't think the commonly repeated story that Stinson visited on his honeymoon is true, he had gotten married in the previous century

more details on the Honeymoon myth in this https://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2023/07/24/henry-stimson-did...

Wow, this is an extremely long-winded and self-indulgent "well actually" comment. I read the whole thing hoping to find the point, but it never came.

Who cares if it was an actual honeymoon or another trip decades after he was married? He was key to sparing the city, and his personal experience with its rich history was a part of that. That's the interesting story, and nothing in this article refutes that.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#472

Post by AbstractH24 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #307
returningfory2 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s a zero sum fallacy in play here. For example you say “Those fancy resorts take all the prime real estate” but many resort towns in Mexico like Cancun were literally invented out of thin air for international tourism. The alternative reality is not “Cancun for the locals”; the alternative reality is no Cancun. In general we have the ability to expand the amount of available housing/hotels/etc. to meet…

Even sticking with Japan, Kyoto was basically saved by international tourism. An American tourist ended up ended up intervening 20 years after his visit when he saw Kyoto at the top of America's list of cities to use nuclear weapons on. Although I don't think the commonly repeated story that Stinson visited on his honeymoon is true, he had gotten married in the previous century

This is a little bit what confuses me about these stories.

As someone who lives in NYC and works with Broadway shows we thrive on tourists. Are there locals who live in Times Square or a few blocks off? Sure, it’s not all that annoying, and most folks like me live in an area that isn’t particularly crowded with tourists, if at all.

When I read stories like this, I never quite understand if it’s worse other places than NYC. Or if I’d go there and be unphased. That it’s just people from some empty suburb where lots have a 10 acre minimum that are bothered by this and write these stories.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#473

Post by dudeinjapan »

jacobgkau wrote: post #400
dudeinjapan wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say that this fact of population decline (and population aging) weighs heavily on the Japanese psyche, especially in the business world. The hottest topic for our customers in sales discussions is definitely "attracting inbound tourists".

It makes sense Japanese business owners would be interested in attracting inbound tourists as a financial solution to population decline for their businesses. At the same time, it can be possible for tourism to not be a solution to the underlying problem of population decline for wider society (including longer-term longevity of businesses, and the feasibility of future businesses). As devil's advocate, do you not se…

Developing a healthy tourism industry, developing English skills to communicate with the world at large, all make great sense for the country as a whole. I think these can be developed without losing the cultural aspects that make Japan great.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#474

Post by cainxinth »

reedf1 wrote: post #88

I would like harder evidence that Japanese business owners hate high-spending tourists. From my personal experience small business owners have at least appeared to very much appreciate my custom. There is a sordid history of Westerners defending Japan from itself - I'm not saying that is happening here, but I would like to see more systematic evidence.

It’s common throughout the world for locals from tourist destinations to bemoan the tourists while happily accepting their money.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#475

Post by spicyusername »

TrappedInCorner wrote: post #271
cedws wrote: post #116

I live in Tokyo at the moment. I get the overtourism thing, because after you've been here even just a little while (months) you start to have a disdain for tourists that do tourist things. Like breaking the rules, being a nuisance, swarming parts of the city. I don't know what can be done about it though. Japan's economy is in trouble, and the tourist money helps and hurts at the same time. It creates tax revenue, y…

I find it amusing when Japan wants to be a homogenous society everybody respects their right to have that opinion. But when a european country voices the same wish, everybody loses their mind.

I wouldn't go so far as to say everybody respects it. Some people, maybe.

Ultimately, it's the same underlying xenophobia and racism you find everywhere else. It's easier for people to like people who are like them and harder for them to like people who are not like them.

In my opinion, people don't talk about how well America integrates other cultures enough. It's one of our defining strengths, even still.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#476

Post by therealpygon »

“It’s bad for my business that I now have lots of customers who aren’t my preferred race/nationality” seems a wild thing to say, because the reality is that the customers stop coming not because of “tourists”, but because they don’t like “foreigners“.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#477

Post by peab »

Klonoar wrote: post #449
ddejohn wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tried to get some friends who visited recently to avoid it in favor of some other culturally significant spots Any tips for somebody looking to visit Japan in the next year or so?

Old-fashioned-guidebooks, like the other commenter said, can be useful... but IMO it's a gamble. One option if you're looking to avoid Kyoto, but want something that still feels sufficiently old world, is Kanazawa. You can take the Shinkansen from Tokyo to get there; ever since this line was opened it also has its fair share of tourists, but it's way less popular than Kyoto and IMO very nice. Old Samurai town out on…

I wish I would have known this before I went!

'

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#478

Post by ccppurcell »

the_af wrote: post #346
ccppurcell wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean but I live close to the border of another country. Can it really be unethical to stay in a hotel in a city two hours west but not two hours northeast because of a border? Maybe you're just talking about the American experience. There are certainly places where it is clearer cut. Hawaii and Barcelona come to mind.

It's unethical to do tourism in Barcelona? What's so "clear cut"?

The locals really don't want tourists to be there.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#479

Post by ProllyInfamous »

prokopton wrote: post #54

I’ve lived in Nagoya for 20 years and Kyoto’s unbearable to visit anymore. I loved it twenty years ago but I have no interest in wading through the tourists from overseas.

In the mid 2000s, I visited (white American) with my then-fiancé (a foreign-born native), and it was absolutely incredible to travel with her and her still-living-there extended family.

Saw so many incredible places and was welcomed everywhere with open arms (except a coed day spa that allowed foreigners — that was difficult). When her native uncle and I got drunk at a karaoke bar, we were tolerated as tip-friendly locals.

I greatly-respected the open hostility to foreigners — to protect their culture — and would never travel again without a local guide.

Sorry to hear it's going to shit. What keeps you there?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#480

Post by peab »

Klonoar wrote: post #304
peab wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get it too. I visited japan recently and in the main touristy spots (tokyo and kyoto), it felt like there were more westerners then japanese. I felt bad.

If you experience this in Tokyo, you're dealing with the fact that it's a truly global city and you're not venturing off the tourist path enough. It's definitely still a thing in some parts of Tokyo to have few-to-no westerners. Kyoto was never going to be able to deal with the level of tourism that it's currently struggling with, though. My friends and I refuse to even stop there now - and I tried to get some friend…

Yeah definitely.

We tried going off the tourist path a bit, but since we didn't have that much time there, and know no japanese, it isn't super easy to do figure out where to go / what to do.

Post reply on HN