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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#471

Post by trollbridge »

simonklitj wrote: post #305
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no technological reason for app developers to be restricted from using other payment processors But there is a customer experience reason. As an iOS user, I very much appreciate that I can ask Apple to cancel some bullshit subscription that used to otherwise try to lock me in behind a labyrinth of added friction and timewasting. Not every problem is technological.

It should be possible to open up the “Cancel Subscription” feature/button to apps using other payment providers. Maybe even keep that in as a requirement for all payment providers?

Should be possible.

In reality, everyone other than Apple has created as much friction as possible in the cancellation process. With Apple, I simply subscribe and then immediately go and unsubscribe.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#472

Post by trollbridge »

me551ah wrote: post #266
INGSOCIALITE wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then...

You absolutely can. Just google for your “ compatible cartridges” , and you’ll find tons that are cheaper and work just fine with your printer.

I would be cautious of saying "just fine"; third-party cartridges you buy from the first search result on Amazon are generally junk, and it takes quite a bit of research now to find one that will work acceptably.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#473

Post by Intermernet »

_benton wrote: post #409
whstl wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What right does a company have to piggyback off of another company? Apple has no right to piggybacking off of another company's business. Therefore the 30% must go.

They aren't piggybacking, they provide the infrastructure, marketplace, and platform.

They explicitly prevent other companies from providing this infrastructure, marketplace and platform. Apple don't offer this stuff as a favour to developers, they demand that developers use it and prevent them from using anything else. Apple aren't some Good Samaritan providing a centralised set of services out of the goodness of their hearts, they are forcing companies to pay an exorbitant fee to be able to play in their garden, and they make billions of dollars in profit from this.

Compare Apple with Steam (who also provide the infrastructure, marketplace and platform). Steam don't force developers to use their services. They're still successful, but you can get almost every game on Steam from somewhere else. This is what I'd ideally like Apple to do. It wouldn't make any difference to me, as I haven't owned or developed for Apple devices in many decades, but it would make a huge difference to many developers, and many device owners. I doubt it will actually make that much difference to Apple's profits, but it would make a difference to the rapidly declining good will they have in the developer community, and increasingly in their customers.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#474

Post by jeffbee »

6510 wrote: post #203
jeffbee wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "complex labyrinth" is only reinforcing the impression that you and the author of that brief are both cranks. "Email" is the top setting under "Default Apps". My iPhone doesn't even offer Apple's Mail app in that screen, probably because I deleted it, which also was not labyrinthine but actually quite trivial.

home screen > settings > default apps > email Easy if you know where to look. If you end up in the wrong sub menu you might simply search the web for instructions. Apple provides web pages where they explain how to use the iphone. There is a section called "mail" under "apps" that shows up in the search results. It really wants me to read the help in dutch, the "apps > mail" section has 14 pages that don't talk about…

> Not impossible but it is not a simple prompt on launch of the app "Banana mail is not currently your default email client. Do you want to set Banana mail as your default app for sending email?"

This is what happens when you install Gmail, for example. You're both under and over-thinking this.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#475

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #415
wickedsight wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either being allowed to change it is relatively new, region locked, or yeah it’s a labyrinth. It's about 5 years old by now. Not having looked for something in a couple of years and being bummed out by that doesn't make Apple the bad guy.

Why would anyone look for something they haven't been told about?

You may as well ask why you should look anywhere but at your own feet while walking around your city.

You have been told that every new OS update brings new features and abilities, and Apple publishes an iPhone User Guide for learning about iOS features like how to change the default mail app (https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/change-the-default-ap...). It's on you to look.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#476

Post by thfuran »

strogonoff wrote: post #376
dcow wrote: post #270

> Companies that monetize user data in exchange for “free” services that abuse your privacy aren’t affected by this [the app store tax], as they don’t process payments through the App Store. However, privacy-first companies that monetize through subscriptions are disproportionately hit by this fee, putting a major barrier toward the adoption of privacy-first business models. Huh. I’ve never seen it framed this way an…

The entire business model that monetises user data, where the actual customer is the advertiser, users do not vote with their wallets, and honest competition is impossible because no one can compete with free, should simply not exist and maybe regulated against—especially in social media, where it incentivises algorithms to push aggravating content in the name of engagement and ad views. Whether Apple should be regul…

I think the fix we need is comprehensive legal privacy protection and (even less achievable) significant restriction on advertisement. That would actually curtail the market for user data and prevalence of ad funding as a model.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#477

Post by thfuran »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #468
onion2k wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point consumers would be free to make a choice to switch away from Apple if they value their privacy enough. The problem right now is that Apple is 'abusing' the fact that privacy-aware consumers are drawn to their platform to charge onerous fees to app developers. They're leveraging their (de facto) monopoly on high-end mobile privacy-aware devices to restrict competition in mobile app fee charging. It's tha…

>At that point consumers would be free to make a choice to switch away from Apple if they value their privacy enough. Consumers who spent hundreds of dollars in Appstore purchases and have 10+ years of photos, movies and data tied to Apple won't just suddenly leave all that and move to Android and start their digital life from scratch. And the young consumers just starting their digital lives, are jumping in the ecos…

And switching to Android, which is only technically not the only alternative, doesn't exactly help privacy anyways.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#478

Post by thfuran »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

>If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it?

Of course not. Companies exist only because it is useful to have that sort of legal entity. They should be regulated to ensure that they remain more useful than harmful to society.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#479

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

p2detar wrote: post #357
efitz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Easy if you know where to look. If you end up in the wrong sub menu you might simply search the web for instructions. Actually, at the very top of the home page of the settings app is a search bar. If you type in anything reasonable (default, email, mail) then one of the first 2-3 results will be “default apps” or “default email”.

8/10 people in my family circle do not know this bar exists. I know it’s not necessarily Apple‘s fault, but not everyone is a tech-proficient.

Maybe 8/10 people in your family circle would benefit from reading the published user guide for their device. That doesn't take technological proficiency, just reading.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#480

Post by QuantumNoodle »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #20

I'm not an Apple enthusiast—my rarely used iPad mini is my only Apple device—but let me play devil’s advocate. If a company invests billions in R&D to create hardware and its integrated software, shouldn’t it have the right to control who or what interacts with it? Why should I be forced to open up the carefully designed ecosystem I’ve built? If my pitch is premium, high-speed hardware and intuitive software so user-…

In the most respectful tone possible, I think if you read the article in its entirety you would get your answer. Laws are needed to keep in check powerful and influential companies so they don't take advantage. Your "devil's advocate" position is questioning 'why should consumers and those who create content for the ecosystem be treated fairly within the ecosystem a company built.' If you don't see an issue with taking advantage of people within the boundary of where you have influence/control, then perhaps let me frame it another way. Your "devil's advocate" position is essentially 'I've built a successful company, therefore I should be allowed to take advantage of the employees inside my company. While they are here, they are forced to endure. If they don't like it, they can go work for the only other employeer'
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