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OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

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Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#471
post #307
post #298

Ok, I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’ve asked it a fairly technical question, about a very niche topic (Final Fantasy VII reverse engineering): https://chatgpt.com/share/68001766-92c8-8004-908f-fb185b7549... With right knowledge and web searches one can answer this question in a matter of minutes at most. The model fumbled around modding forums and other sites and did manage to find some good information but then started to…

It can imitate its creator. We reached AGI.

I wanted to believe. But not now.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#472
post #298

Ok, I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’ve asked it a fairly technical question, about a very niche topic (Final Fantasy VII reverse engineering): https://chatgpt.com/share/68001766-92c8-8004-908f-fb185b7549... With right knowledge and web searches one can answer this question in a matter of minutes at most. The model fumbled around modding forums and other sites and did manage to find some good information but then started to…

AIs in general are definitely hallucinating a lot more when it comes to niche topics. It is funny how they are unable to say "I don't know" and just make up things to answer your questions

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#473
post #298

Ok, I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’ve asked it a fairly technical question, about a very niche topic (Final Fantasy VII reverse engineering): https://chatgpt.com/share/68001766-92c8-8004-908f-fb185b7549... With right knowledge and web searches one can answer this question in a matter of minutes at most. The model fumbled around modding forums and other sites and did manage to find some good information but then started to…

AIs in general are definitely hallucinating a lot more when it comes to niche topics. It is funny how they are unable to say "I don't know" and just make up things to answer your questions

LLMs made me a lot more aware of leading questions.

Tiny changes in how you frame the same query can generate predictably different answers as the LLM tries to guess at your underlying expectations.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not expecting someone paying $200 a month to access something to be objective about that particular something. Also “what I would expect from a professional philosopher”, is that your argument, really?

I’m paying $20/mo, and I’m paying the same for Gemini and for Claude. What’s wrong with my argument? You questioned the performance of the model on non-STEM tasks, and I gave you my impression.

Writing philosophy that looks convincing has been a thing LLM do well since the first release ChatGPT back in 2022 (in my country back in early 2023, TV featured a kind of competition between ChatGPT and a philosopher turned media personality, with university professors blindly reviewing both essays and attempting to determine which was whom).

To have an idea about how good a model is on non-STEM tasks, you need to challenge it on stuff that is harder than this for LLMs, like summarization without hallucination or creative writing. OpenAI's nonthinking model are usually very good on these, but not their thinking models, whereas other players (be it Google, Anthropic or DeepSeek) manage to make models that can be very good at both.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#475
post #298

Ok, I’m a bit underwhelmed. I’ve asked it a fairly technical question, about a very niche topic (Final Fantasy VII reverse engineering): https://chatgpt.com/share/68001766-92c8-8004-908f-fb185b7549... With right knowledge and web searches one can answer this question in a matter of minutes at most. The model fumbled around modding forums and other sites and did manage to find some good information but then started to…

> Not to lie me in the face. Are you saying that, it deliberately lied to you? > With right knowledge and web searches one can answer this question in a matter of minutes at most. Reminded me of Dunning Kruger curve, the ai model at the first peak and you at the latter.

> Are you saying that, it deliberately lied to you?

Pretty much yeah. Now “deliberately” does imply some kind of agency or even consciousness which I don’t believe these models have, its probably the result of overfitting, reward hacking or some other issues from training it, but the end result is that the model straight up misleads you knowingly (as in - the thinking trace is aware of the fact it doesn’t know the answer but it provides it anyways).

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some sources mention that o3 scores 63.8 on SWE-bench, while Gemini 2.5 Pro scores 69.1. On most other benchmarks, they seem to perform about the same, which is bad news for o3 because it's much more expensive and slower than Gemini 2.5 Pro, and it also hides its reasoning while Gemini shows everything. We can probably just stick with Gemini 2.5 Pro, since it offers the best combination of price, quality, and speed.…

> Some sources mention that o3 scores 63.8 on SWE-bench, while Gemini 2.5 Pro scores 69.1. It's the opposite. o3 scores higher

On SWE bench? Show your source.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently exclaimed that “vibe coding is BS” to one of my coworkers before explaining that I’ve actually been using GPT, Claude, llama (for airplanes), Cline, Cursor, Windsurf, and more for coding for as long as they’ve been available (more recently playing with Gemini). Cline + Sonnet 3.7 has been giving me great results on smaller projects with popular languages, and I feel truly fortunate to have AWS Bedrock on t…

> That said, 100% pure vibe coding is, as far as I can tell, still very much BS. I don't really agree. There's certainly a showboating factor, not to mention there is currently a goldrush to tap this movement to capitalize from it. However, I personally managed to create a fully functioning web app from scratch with Copilot+vs code using a mix of GPT4 and o1-mini. I'm talking about both backend and frontend, with bas…

People were making a front and backend web app in half a day using Ruby on Rails way before LLMs were ever a thing, and their code quality was still much better than yours!

So vibe coding, sure you can create some shitty thing which WORKS, but once it becomes bigger than a small shitty thing, it becomes harder and harder to work with because the code is so terrible when you're pure vibe coding.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#478
post #63

Very impressive! But under arguably the most important benchmark -- SWE-bench verified for real-world coding tasks -- Claude 3.7 still remains the champion.[1] Incredible how resilient Claude models have been for best-in-coding class. [1] But by only about 1%, and inclusive of Claude's "custom scaffold" augmentation (which in practice I assume almost no one uses?). The new OpenAI models might still be effectively bes…

Gemini 2.5 Pro is widely considered superior to 3.7 Sonnet now by heavy users, but they don't have an SWE-bench score. Shows that looking at one such benchmark isn't very telling. Main advantage over Sonnet being that it's better at using a large amount of context, which is enormously helpful during coding tasks. Sonnet is still an incredibly impressive model as it held the crown for 6 months, which may as well be a…

Eh, I wouldn't say that's accurate, I think it's situational. I code all day using AI tools and Sonnet 3.7 is still the king. Maybe it's language dependent or something, but all the engineers I know are full on Claude-Code at this point.

Re: OpenAI o3 and o4-mini

#479
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what it can do incredible -- but I don't believe the phrase AGI should even be mentioned until we are seeing solutions to problems that most professional mathematicians would struggle with, including solutions to unsolved problems. But Why ? Why should Artificial General Intelligence preclude things a good chunk of humans wouldn't be able to do ? Are those guys no longer General Intelligences ? I'm not saying this d…

Sure, there's no authority who stamps the official definition. I'll make my case. To me, if you look at how the phrase is usually used -- "when humans have achieved AGI...", etc -- it evokes a science fiction turning point that implies superhuman performance in more or less every intellectual task. It's general , after all. I think of Hal or the movie Her. It's not "Artifical General Just-Like-Most-People-You-Know In…

A standard term people use for what you describe is superintelligence, not AGI.

Current frontier models are better than average humans in many skills but worse in others. Ethan Mollick calls it “jagged frontier” which sounds about right.

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