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How the U.K. broke its own economy

theatlantic.com

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Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#471

Post by regularfry »

dan-robertson wrote: post #450
DrScientist wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of irrational online hate for wind power - even going as far as wanting to dismantle offshore farms. I do wonder who is fermenting this - the obvious place to look here is the fossil fuel industry - they have the means, the motive and a track record of flexible morals. A lot of currently very rich and powerful people lose in a world where most countries and even people can generate most of the power they…

I’m not sure this is a fossil fuel industry thing. I think there are just people who really dislike the appearance of windmills in the landscape. Onshore, it is often better to put windmills on hills where they will be more prominent and so any one windmill can be ‘local’ to many people. Offshore, wind farms may ‘spoil’ a view out to sea, though they are also harder to oppose. P.s. I think you meant to write fomentin…

It's also a convenient wedge issue, regardless of the merits in either direction.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#472

Post by genmon »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #90

A new report, titled “Foundations,” captures the country’s economic malaise in detail. That 'new' report was discussed here 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41600388

For Brits, Foundations is a must-read report.

Any policy suggestions need to show how they'll urgently remedy the serious issues with energy, housing, and infrastructure detailed in the report -- or make the case that this issues don't matter.

Here's the direct link:

https://ukfoundations.co

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#474

Post by alt227 »

devnullbrain wrote: post #377
Manuel_D wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the breakdown of electricity usage here: https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/use-of-elect... For residential uses, heating, cooling, and refrigeration are the main uses. For commercial electricity use: computing, refrigeration, cooling, and ventilation. For industrial electricity use: machine drive (lathes, mills, etc.), process and boiler heating, facility heating and cooling, electrochemical…

This is about the UK. We're now less than 5 years away from when every new car will have a battery. In 10, none of them will have an engine.

The deadline in the UK is currently 2035.

Labour have pledged to bring it back down to 2030, but when they begin the talks with the motor industry to try to achieve this they will fold like they have done several times so far in this government.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#475

Post by sgt101 »

curo wrote: post #272
nikkwong wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British economy was doing quite well before Brexit. Now it's absolutely crippled.

Real GDP per capita growth for US vs UK was almost identical until 2008. The last 3 years have been terrible for the UK, but if you're looking for the start of UK's stagnation you have to go much farther back than Brexit.

This - the economy rode on financialisation and north sea oil for the two decades before 2008. Since 2008 there has been no real action to resolve the core issue of unlocking the potential of the North of England - everyone knows that that is low hanging fruit (human capital, regional infrastructure etc) but no one will actually take the risk and go for it.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#476

Post by pjc50 »

piqufoh wrote: post #473

There are too many glaring holes in this article for it to be taken seriously. It's simply not a complete argument if you discuss the UK's current economy and don't mention 1) Brexit 2) Green energy policies

Not so much green energy policies per se as the incoherency of banning onshore wind, due to .. NIMBY planning objections. And objections to the construction of pylons. And objections to the construction of new nuclear. And objections to the construction of batteries. And offshore electricity links.

The UK's energy crisis and its BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anyone) planning system are very linked.

(credit to the Economist some years ago for that acronym)

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#477

Post by sgt101 »

hadlock wrote: post #321
curo wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real GDP per capita growth for US vs UK was almost identical until 2008. The last 3 years have been terrible for the UK, but if you're looking for the start of UK's stagnation you have to go much farther back than Brexit.

The problem I see is that although the trend may have started before, Brexit caused the local financial services sector to effectively collapse and move to the Netherlands and Germany. London will never be able to recover that loss in ten generations. Had brexiters not ejected your finance industry, there was probably an opportunity to recover.

I looked this up (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre#Global_Financ... ) and I think you have got things wrong.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#478

Post by h4kor »

alt227 wrote: post #468
dan-robertson wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure this is a fossil fuel industry thing. I think there are just people who really dislike the appearance of windmills in the landscape. Onshore, it is often better to put windmills on hills where they will be more prominent and so any one windmill can be ‘local’ to many people. Offshore, wind farms may ‘spoil’ a view out to sea, though they are also harder to oppose. P.s. I think you meant to write fomentin…

I come from Cornwall in the UK, and whenever I go back there I am struck by how many on shore windfarms and turbines there are there. As you drive through the countryside they are everywhere. I have asked hundreds of local people what they think of them over the years, and not one of them have ever said anything about them spoiling the view. The farmers love them as they get subsidies for putting them on their land,…

Same in Germany. Farmers (most conservative population group) love renewable energy. Every farmer I know tries to get wind turbines build on their land and have their roofs packed with PV. Yet the conservative parties are the biggest blockers for the energy transition.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#479

Post by tempfile »

tsimionescu wrote: post #442
tempfile wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hardly call it "utterly irrelevant" that in a discussion about "killing birds is bad" someone mentions that it is not usually considered bad to kill birds for food.

Killing wild birds accidentally is completely different from raising and bucthering birds for food, from virtually any point of view I can imagine. People who have no problem with eating meat will still not find it OK to kill a pet pig, and might still consider sport hunting wild boars to be barbaric.

"completely different" and "utterly irrelevant" are not the same thing. They also aren't completely different. They have things in common (killing and harming birds).

You're trying to turn "I don't care about that" into "it's logically incorrect to care about that" which is not a game you can win.

Re: How the U.K. broke its own economy

#480

Post by rickdeckard »

"These problems are obvious to many British politicians. Leaders in the Conservative and Labour Parties often comment on expensive energy and scarce housing. But their goals haven’t been translated into priorities and policies that lead to growth."

I can't find this mentioned anywhere in the article, but the current imbalance of supply and demand and the resulting high prices is quite beneficial for parts of the real estate lobby which don't focus on building houses but on maximizing value from existing properties.

Approximately one in five Members of UK Parliament are landlords or have investments in the property market.

So while the article is advocating for the removal of "barriers that stop the private sector from doing what it already wants to do", it seems to be blissfully unaware of the powerful forces outside and likely WITHIN the political parties that rather prefer to maintain this imbalance...

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