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GSA Eliminates 18F

nextgov.com

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Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#471

Post by hnburnsy »

dralley wrote: post #8

Stupid, pointless destruction. No part of this is efficient. 18F and the USDS were effective tools for modernization.

According to a GSA forensic audit, 18F was losing money, had billing issues, and spent too much time on non-billable activities (52% versus 48% billable).

https://www.gsaig.gov/sites/default/files/ipa-reports/OIG%20...

The GSA conclusion was...

  1. Establish a viable plan to ensure full cost recovery of ASF funds expended by 18F. 
  2. Ensure that internal 18F projects have appropriate supervisory review.  
  3. Implement controls over 18F’s reimbursable agreement process to ensure that work is not performed outside of a fully executed agreement.  
  4. Ensure that GSA CIO reviews and approves, in writing, all 18F IT-related work performed for GSA internal organizations. 
  5. Implement a comprehensive review of 18F’s past work to ensure accuracy of all billings.   
  6. Establish reliable internal controls to ensure that 18F’s future billings are accurate.  
  7. Ensure that 18F’s billing records are retained in accordance with GSA records management standards.

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#472

Post by jedberg »

twoodfin wrote: post #469
jedberg wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not what we have today. For starters, that form starts with "tell us what is on your W2". They already know that. They don't need it. There is a reason TurboTax is popular -- because it's a better interface for asking those questions. But look at other countries. They don't ask you to fill out a form. They send you a bill and ask if they missed anything. For 80% of taxpayers, they would send the bill and the…

The IRS is not keeping a database of real estate transactions and birth records. Let alone modest charitable contributions or fluid household composition. When the IRS audits you, they don’t come with their own evidence beyond the basic income reporting that yes, they could pre-fill into forms. It’s up to you to produce documentation that justifies your filing. Our tax code is complicated. It relies on voluntary (but…

Again, for 80% of filers, none of this matters. They have their one W2 and take the standard deduction. The only thing the IRS needs to know is what's on the W2 and their marriage status, which they absolutely do have because if you get the marriage status wrong they send you a letter (and it's a matter of public record anyway).

So for 80% of people, they would never have to fill out a tax form at all. They could just get the tax bill and have it auto-pay (or more likely auto-refund).

And for the next 10% of people, who only take a small set of deductions that you can take on top of the standard deduction, you don't need even a two page form, you just need a wizard that asks a few questions like TurboTax.

And then for the rest they can opt to fill out the regular forms if they don't agree with how the IRS calculated their bill. This is how it works in pretty much every other civilized country (and a lot of uncivilized ones too).

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#473

Post by khazhoux »

Spooky23 wrote: post #459
khazhoux wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're a zealot or incapable of cognitively understanding what the words mean. Straight to ad hominem. Excellent.

If you are an advocate for the destruction of my country through your willful ignorance, you’re the problem. You don’t get to hide behind high minded ideals.

I'm not sure exactly what point you are arguing. The issue in this subthread is whether or not cruelty to federal employees is "the point" of the recent actions. I claim that it's not the objective, but a side effect. I claim that the Trump administration's main objective is to dissolve these agencies, not specifically to inflict harm on employees. All of the agency de-fundings and dissolutions can be much better explained as serving some other goal: either industry profit, or to make it easier for his party (or Trump himself!) to win in 2028, or to undo some perceived left-leaning agenda.

I am hardly advocating for destruction of the USA simply because I disagree with that pithy quotable, "The cruelty is the point."

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#474

Post by amiga386 »

quantified wrote: post #416
khazhoux wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Their goal is to dissolve these agencies, to reduce regulation that burden certain industries.

They are either deceptive or incredibly incompentent. There is no burden to any industry in giving the American taxpayer a free and authoritative easy way to file. Similarly, firing so many FDIC inspectors saves nothing, they are paid by the banks not the government. I'm going with deceptive.

There is a burden, and a huge one at that, to the rent-seeking industry.

If there's a free and authoritative easy way to file taxes, then there's no reason for people to pay for unnecessary third party services who earn ALL their money by imposing themselves between the taxpayer and IRS. They will fight like bastards to preserve their privileged position.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax...

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#475

Post by cragfar »

jedberg wrote: post #472
twoodfin wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS is not keeping a database of real estate transactions and birth records. Let alone modest charitable contributions or fluid household composition. When the IRS audits you, they don’t come with their own evidence beyond the basic income reporting that yes, they could pre-fill into forms. It’s up to you to produce documentation that justifies your filing. Our tax code is complicated. It relies on voluntary (but…

Again, for 80% of filers, none of this matters. They have their one W2 and take the standard deduction. The only thing the IRS needs to know is what's on the W2 and their marriage status, which they absolutely do have because if you get the marriage status wrong they send you a letter (and it's a matter of public record anyway). So for 80% of people, they would never have to fill out a tax form at all. They could jus…

You're missing that those 80% are not the same people every year. The IRS definitely doesn't keep a database of who is married or not, nor are they scouring every counties database for changes. I'm not sure where you're getting the "they will just send you a letter" part.

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#476

Post by retzkek »

retzkek wrote: post #404
araes wrote: post #66

Bad result for America, as at least the two that I've been familiar with have both been dramatically better website implementations than much of the federal government. GSA, Digital Analytics Program: https://analytics.usa.gov/ Huge amounts of data about how government websites are used including: locations (cities, countries), languages, referral sources, media sources, devices, browsers, OS, website destination, an…

Their web dev guides - especially for a11y - are high quality, and were taken offline this morning. I stood up a copy (slightly modified) at https://guides.18f.kmr.me/ Hopefully the GitHub repos stick around; I forked and cloned a few and suggest folks browse through them and grab anything that looks interesting in case they disappear.

Update: the former 18F folks have stood up a new site: https://18f.org/guides/

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#477

Post by dekhn »

rayiner wrote: post #373
rqtwteye wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just insane. Totally destructive. Checks and balances are gone.

Explain what you think “checks and balances” are, please.

Folks, don't fall for rayiner's in-bad-faith comments. Best not to respond, they are trying to goad you into an argument.

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#478

Post by d4mi3n »

labster wrote: post #319
d4mi3n wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apathy and nihilism are unproductive, even if current outcomes are bad. Without hope, there is no motivation for change. Act. Do. Vote. Volunteer.

Already did that. Studied climate change, volunteered and served as an officer in the local Democratic Party for years. Did lots of precinct walking, wrote postcards, helped fundraisers, organized protests. Things have only ever gotten worse, and we’re barreling towards +6°C by 2100. Honestly if people actually voted for Trump after the last time, how could they ever be convinced to change? Maybe we deserve what we g…

Possibly. But difficulty fixing large problems doesn’t exclude incremental progress in other ways. Changing national policy is hard. But stuff in your city? State? A lot easier to make tangible change.

In the last decade I’ve seen big improvements in housing policy and zoning laws in my municipality. There are ongoing efforts to shift more of the local energy grid to renewables. This won’t make a big difference in the grand scheme of things, but it does improve things locally and chips away at the larger issues.

It’s easy to lose hope with all the huge problems we see, but no one person can fix climate change, economic inequality, the cost of food, etc. It’s good to hear folks like you were fighting the good fight, just remember you aren’t alone and it’s not up to just you. Keep the hope and optimism alive if you can, we need it more as things get harder.

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#479

Post by astrange »

adastra22 wrote: post #194
astrange wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not TurboTax, it's Grover Norquist. Republicans are already ideologically against easy tax filing because they're against taxes, they don't need corporate backing for that. Using OpenSecrets in particular is misleading because it shows you donations fron "employees of corporations" to political campaigns and then people pretend it's donations from "corporations", which is obviously not the same thing. (and not a…

I mean, it's both. Intuit gives money to representatives that ideologically dislike taxes, and therefore WANT it to be a horrible experience so that you'll go along with getting rid of it (which Intuit knows will never actually happen).

> Intuit gives money to representatives

No they don't. Corporations can't give money to representatives. That's exactly why I just said OpenSecrets is misleading.

Re: GSA Eliminates 18F

#480

Post by rayiner »

dekhn wrote: post #477
rayiner wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what you think “checks and balances” are, please.

Folks, don't fall for rayiner's in-bad-faith comments. Best not to respond, they are trying to goad you into an argument.

I’m not making a “bad faith argument.” I’m trying to fight the widespread misinformation that there are “checks and balances” within the executive branch. Where is Community Notes when you need it?
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