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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

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Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#471

Post by DrillShopper »

tptacek wrote: post #378
axus wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court literally said that Trump has absolute immunity for criminal use of presidential power. Combined with the statistical impossibility of a 2/3 senate majority for impeachment, this is a license to grab as much power as that same court will allow.

Well, yes, that's how the system works: a determined President can, in fact, grab as much power as the Supreme Court will allow. That's literally what the Supreme Court is there for.

The president can arguably pack the court and with his majorities nobody will stop him

If you believe the Supreme Court is an effective guardrail against tyranny then you're deeply mistaken. The only true safeguard against tyranny is the American people refusing to comply and responding with force of arms if pushed.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#472

Post by NotYourLawyer »

apexalpha wrote: post #88

>A White House Liaison is to be installed in every independent regulatory agency to enforce direct presidential control Wow. Literally installing political officers in agencies.

> The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.

Seems fine that the bureaucrats to whom executive power is delegated should be answerable to the executive.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#473

Post by Jare »

tptacek wrote: post #453
mfkp wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uncommon tptacek L. "extensive internal checks" that's laughable given what's been going on lately with the executive overreach.

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying those internal checks are a good thing; I mean that the President already has extensive mechanisms to control what these agencies do.

He seems to be optimizing and polishing his ability to do so, which is very dangerous even if technically the reach is the same.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#474

Post by rco8786 »

tptacek wrote: post #375
Zamaamiro wrote: post #258

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

What is it that you think this EO says? The first Trump administration went all the way to the Supreme Court to establish that he could coerce ALJs. There are already extensive internal checks on FTC, SEC, and FCC --- places where to exercise independent power those agencies still need the cooperation of DOJ. There's a clear norms violation happening here, but I don't see the power grab everybody else is seeing. Thes…

> These are powers the Presidency already had.

Then what, in your mind, is the purpose of this EO?

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#475

Post by cpitman »

generic92034 wrote: post #451
steveBK123 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem with people being OK with executive overreach when "their team" is in power. Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. We should desire that the legislative side actually legislates and each branch of the government holds the other two in check, regardless of partisan control. Further having our judicial branch become open…

> Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. Are you sure this is going to be a fact, in the future? How likely is it, that the next elections will still be (somewhat) fair?

Very. Election officials, across states and across parties, have been faithfully discharging their duties, often under pressure to not do so. This is a responsibility of the states, and not the federal government. If you're concerned, then work as a poll officer on election day.

In Virginia, I get to participate an incredibly professional and structured process that makes it easy for everyone who can vote to vote and makes sure there are many checks that the process is being followed correctly.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#476

Post by tptacek »

rco8786 wrote: post #474
tptacek wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that you think this EO says? The first Trump administration went all the way to the Supreme Court to establish that he could coerce ALJs. There are already extensive internal checks on FTC, SEC, and FCC --- places where to exercise independent power those agencies still need the cooperation of DOJ. There's a clear norms violation happening here, but I don't see the power grab everybody else is seeing. Thes…

> These are powers the Presidency already had. Then what, in your mind, is the purpose of this EO?

To serve notice to the FCC, FTC, SEC, and CFTC that Trump intends to override their internal legal interpretations.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#477

Post by fireflash38 »

ike2792 wrote: post #230
steveBK123 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem with people being OK with executive overreach when "their team" is in power. Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. We should desire that the legislative side actually legislates and each branch of the government holds the other two in check, regardless of partisan control. Further having our judicial branch become open…

This is the crux of the issue. Executive power has been gradually expanded since at least the end of WWII, but things have accelerated since the early 00's. Think GWB's "signing statements" or Obama's "phone and pen." Trump I, Biden, and now Trump II have continued to push the limits, in part because of a desire for more power but also because Congress hasn't functioned as an institution in decades. Congress has pass…

Congress needs to be expanded to do its job, and drop the filibuster. We need more, proportionally allocated representatives. Representatives that come from more than one of two parties. Representatives that spend more time at home than on the campaign trail or in DC.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#478

Post by insane_dreamer »

apexalpha wrote: post #88

>A White House Liaison is to be installed in every independent regulatory agency to enforce direct presidential control Wow. Literally installing political officers in agencies.

Incidentally, this is still how it works in China today.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#479

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

avalys wrote: post #442
Zamaamiro wrote: post #258

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

This EO says nothing about the Judicial branch and presents a perfectly reasonable policy statement about how legal decisions and interpretation should be made within the executive branch. What specific language in this EO do you have a problem with? I’m no fan of Trump, but this pattern of people hallucinating that Trump said something he didn’t and then freaking out about their nonexistent hallucination, is getting…

https://archive.is/g6ElI

“So, through constitutional means?” the presiding judge asked.

“Jawohl!” Hitler replied.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#480

Post by insane_dreamer »

sangnoir wrote: post #425
doctorpangloss wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stephen Miller worked the DHS and HHS the way you described in the first Trump administration. Presumably Biden had ample time to “seize these levers” no?

Biden chose not to use the power available to him to its full extent. He could have done something really extreme with the immunity he was granted by SCOTUS, but instead, he disavowed it.

That's because people who are not power-hungry see the dangers in becoming too powerful (and therefore often best suited to be in power). Not saying Biden was the best president ever or anything, but power-hungry leaders for the most part do not work out well for citizens -- history is full of examples.
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